Comments on: The Achilles’ Heel of Heat Pumps https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/the-achilles-heel-of-heat-pumps/ Building science knowledge, HVAC design, & fun Thu, 05 Sep 2024 15:43:38 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.6.2 By: Matthew Hill https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/the-achilles-heel-of-heat-pumps/#comment-44494 Thu, 05 Sep 2024 15:43:38 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=9052#comment-44494 My Bosch 2 ton does an amazing job at cooling. It gets hot in my area, but usually not for extended periods, and rarely over 90F. My thermostat report said i used it for 95 hours last month. In cooling mode, it averages about 1.5 kW. Adjusting for on/off peak times, it probably cost us $20 to cool the house for a month. The neighbor has 2 window units installed, that run almost constantly. It probably costs them $75 and still isnt comfortable other than the rooms they are in

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By: Wayne Appleyard https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/the-achilles-heel-of-heat-pumps/#comment-44492 Thu, 05 Sep 2024 13:10:19 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=9052#comment-44492 I live in Michigan and have had a Mitsubishi Hyperheat system since fall of 2019 with backup resistance heat. I sized the system so the resistance heaters were there more for a backup than needed for undersizing. We like a night setback for sleeping. Basically I have the resistance heaters shut off with the breaker so they won’t come on and that has worked well. We do get high humidity high temperature days in the summer and the system seems to reduce the humidity enough. The variable output may take care of it. What many people don’t realize is that these systems can drop their output to about half of their rated output, so in effect they can look like an undersized unit.
They even run at a little higher efficiency in the minimum load operation (@ 95 outside minCOP 4.08 and max COP 3.88) (in heating @17F min COP 2.36 and maxCOP=3.6)

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By: chris diesenbruch https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/the-achilles-heel-of-heat-pumps/#comment-44481 Wed, 04 Sep 2024 23:39:37 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=9052#comment-44481 In reply to Gary DuCharme.

IDK, everything breaks eventually including oil and gas boulders. My Mitsubishi hyperheats are 7 years old and, knock on wood, the only thing that’s failed was a line set not made by Mitsubishi.

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By: Gary DuCharme https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/the-achilles-heel-of-heat-pumps/#comment-44479 Wed, 04 Sep 2024 16:13:28 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=9052#comment-44479 The 600lb gorilla in this room is that nobody talks about the cost of maintenance and potential service of Inverter Heat Pumps and it comes as a big surprise to owners when something goes wrong and it does. That’s when all of the talk of high COP goes out the window so to speak. A HP has to run almost continually and most are made in less than a stellar fashion. The electronics are very sensitive and expensive even in warranty provided you can find someone capable to service them. Until I see more honesty about this I will call this a sham. Gary

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By: Jeff https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/the-achilles-heel-of-heat-pumps/#comment-44459 Tue, 03 Sep 2024 14:05:02 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=9052#comment-44459 In reply to Michael Harlow.

I’ve got LG and Mitsubishi mini splits that are from 2010 (now considered OLD from technical viewpoint, lol) . I’m comfy at 70F inside with temps being 0F outside in a 1979 house that isn’t insulated and sealed even close to a modern home. These aren’t even cold rated Heat Pumps and they’re doing fine at 5F and 14F below their rating respectively. Presuming the house isn’t too leaky air wise and insulated reasonably well, the only time need aux heat is when using old school (non inverter based) heat pumps (which are awful for winter and shouldn’t be sold anymore, but are and is what this article refers to), or non cold rated modern heat pumps when get up into Canada and Alaska. Then parts of Canada and Alaska will always need supplemental regardless. But for the lower 48? It’s fine.

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By: Ted Kidd https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/the-achilles-heel-of-heat-pumps/#comment-41778 Thu, 11 Jul 2024 13:23:42 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=9052#comment-41778 😏 Also missing is demand defrost, and defrost without strip if it doesn't cause comfort issues. Finally, completely missing and very important is reheat dehumidification. Add those and you've got a great article!]]> So, would you say using setback might actually COST rather that saving money? 🧐😏
Also missing is demand defrost, and defrost without strip if it doesn’t cause comfort issues.

Finally, completely missing and very important is reheat dehumidification. Add those and you’ve got a great article!

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By: rj https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/the-achilles-heel-of-heat-pumps/#comment-41743 Mon, 08 Jul 2024 17:24:18 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=9052#comment-41743 In reply to Henry Chinery.

Almost all except the very best heat pumps reverse modes to the cooling cycle to heat the condenser during defrost.

Auxiliary heat during defrost is primarily used to maintain warm air for human comfort during defrost reverse mode cycles.

Time based defrost is from the seventies and is used on the lowest cost heat pumps.

Demand defrost based on logic and temperatures became common twenty years ago and is the current standard for conventional split systems.

Most minisplits reverse without any sort of auxiliary heat. Some conventional split systems are installed without aux heat.

Dual fuel heat pumps use conventional furnaces during defrost while the highest end inverter systems use hot gas bypass defrost. This method sends hot refrigerant routed in a separate circuit to the condenser while still maintaining inside refrigerant based heat. Hot gas is the most complex from a device required perspective.

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By: Henry Chinery https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/the-achilles-heel-of-heat-pumps/#comment-41739 Mon, 08 Jul 2024 13:49:48 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=9052#comment-41739 In reply to Wayne Appleyard.

The other need for heat strips wasn’t mentioned in the article is when the heat pump goes into defrost mode. Essentially the heat pump goes into cooling mode and the heat strips are turned on to avoid cold air coming from the vents during defrost. The outdoor coils can accumulate frost which diminishes capacity during heating mode. Basic defrost modes operate every 30-60-90 minutes as selected for a set period of time of 5-15 minutes. Newer boards monitor the time since last defrost and the temperature of the outdoor coils and only run the defrost cycle if needed. They also terminate the defrost based on the temperature of the outdoor coils with a tmer as a failsafe.

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By: Daniel https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/the-achilles-heel-of-heat-pumps/#comment-41724 Sat, 06 Jul 2024 12:36:40 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=9052#comment-41724 In reply to Jberger.

Strip heat conversion of electricity to heat might be 100% efficient, but doing that conversion outside the space to be heated..in outside winter temperatures then pushing heat into the house isn’t.

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By: chris diesenbruch https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/the-achilles-heel-of-heat-pumps/#comment-41711 Fri, 05 Jul 2024 12:21:40 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=9052#comment-41711 When I installed my Mitsubishi hyperheats in 2017 I intentionally had 2 outside compressors in the hope that if they could heat my house on the coldest days ( suburbs of Philly) then I’d be able to get rid of my oil boiler as 2 compressors would provide redundancy. After a couple of winters never using the oil heat and only using it for domestic hot water I removed the boiler and the tank and installed a HPWH. I’ve never had an issue heating in the winter since but admittedly the house isn’t huge and it’s pretty well insulated and sealed.

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