Comments on: Going Deeper With Control Layers https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/going-deeper-with-control-layers/ Building science knowledge, HVAC design, & fun Wed, 05 Jun 2024 12:14:55 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.6.2 By: Thomas Dugan https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/going-deeper-with-control-layers/#comment-40840 Mon, 03 Jun 2024 20:49:52 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=9068#comment-40840 In reply to RoyC.

The walls come with R16 closed cell foam with a radiant foil face toward the inside. The is a 6″ cavity between the concrete studs that I add R15 batts with wire standoffs from the foil, just because it is so inexpensive and helps control convective loops in the voids. For the roof deck I use closed cell spray foam that glues the decking and trusses together. Extremely strong and air tight.

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By: RoyC https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/going-deeper-with-control-layers/#comment-40839 Mon, 03 Jun 2024 19:40:11 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=9068#comment-40839 In reply to Thomas Dugan.

What is the R-value of these panels? Do you use them for the roof too?

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By: Thomas Dugan https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/going-deeper-with-control-layers/#comment-40823 Sun, 02 Jun 2024 02:38:21 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=9068#comment-40823 That is my point. I don’t need any of those layers as my wall system doesn’t require all of that mess inherent with wood frame construction. Europe doesn’t build with a lot of this wood framed mess. Anywhere in the country, we could save billions in disaster damage by moving to more concrete based wall systems. My homes would increase survivability from tornadoes, wildfires, earthquakes, hurricanes, you name it.

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By: Allison Bailes https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/going-deeper-with-control-layers/#comment-40809 Fri, 31 May 2024 11:59:53 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=9068#comment-40809 In reply to Thomas Dugan.

Thomas: Au contraire, sir. That 0.5 ACH50 tells me you have quite the robust air control layer. And you have lots of insulation, I’m sure, as part of your thermal control layer. Then there’s your drainage plane, flashing, and the other components of your water control layer on the roof, walls, and foundation. (If you have exposed 5000 psi concrete and it’s waterproof, that would be part of your water control layer, too.) Since you’re in a mixed-humid climate, you don’t need much of anything for a vapor control layer.

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By: Thomas Dugan https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/going-deeper-with-control-layers/#comment-40799 Thu, 30 May 2024 20:40:48 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=9068#comment-40799 I know that I am a minority player here in that I do not build with stick frame construction. As such, none of this layer stuff applies to my precast insulated concrete panel wall system from Superior Walls of America. They use only 5000 psi concrete which is inherently waterproof. My blower-tests are always less than .5ACH50. My attic and crawl spaces are completely sealed and part of the conditioned space. Mechanical make-up air devices and dedicated de-humidification help to provide good indoor air quality. In addition, my homes would have a much higher survival rate from natural disasters. It still amazes me that our building industry spends so much time and money clinging to the wood frame industry.

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By: RoyC https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/going-deeper-with-control-layers/#comment-40796 Thu, 30 May 2024 19:54:23 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=9068#comment-40796 In reply to Allison Bailes.

Maybe. Maybe not. Gravity is a force acting between two masses, in this case, the earth and some smaller quantity of liquid water. The others are driven by thermal or mass diffusion. Gravity on earth is pretty much only in one direction unless we look at lunar tides, but I don’t find that to be a problem with building envelopes. Diffusion can be in any direction.

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By: Allison Bailes https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/going-deeper-with-control-layers/#comment-40795 Thu, 30 May 2024 19:40:53 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=9068#comment-40795 In reply to RoyC.

Roy, are you saying there’s not a gravitational potential difference?

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By: RoyC https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/going-deeper-with-control-layers/#comment-40794 Thu, 30 May 2024 19:39:15 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=9068#comment-40794 I claim that liquid water is the odd one. It is driven by gravity and sometimes by capillary action. The others are driven by differences in potentials (pressure or temperatures).

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