Comments on: Can Cold Surfaces Wring Moisture From Dry Air? https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/can-cold-surfaces-wring-moisture-from-dry-air/ Building science knowledge, HVAC design, & fun Sun, 05 Mar 2023 12:48:20 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.6.2 By: Allison Bailes https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/can-cold-surfaces-wring-moisture-from-dry-air/#comment-32940 Sun, 05 Mar 2023 12:48:20 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=8105#comment-32940 In reply to Chris Edwards.

Chris: There are also good apps for smartphones that do all the psychrometric calculations, too. I mostly use the Munters PsychroApp.

I remember when I read the paper (“Unplanned Airflows and Moisture Problems”) where Lstiburek and Terry Brennan first mentioned accidental dehumidification and thinking how brilliant that was. I put the link to the paper at the bottom of my article on that topic:

Accidental Dehumidification – A Preventable Mess

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By: Allison Bailes https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/can-cold-surfaces-wring-moisture-from-dry-air/#comment-32939 Sun, 05 Mar 2023 12:40:20 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=8105#comment-32939 In reply to Bill Sachs.

Bill: How far are you willing to go? That duct in the wall is probably an uninsulated supply duct. The drywall in the closet gets cold enough to accumulate moisture and grow mold in summer. One solution would be to open the wall and insulate the duct. You may need to expand the space for the duct by stealing space from the closet.

Barring that, you try to get some air flow into the closet. A small muffin fan might be enough if you have a decent undercut on the door. Ideally you’d place the fan high and on the back side of the closet, but putting it above he door could work, too.

You could also put a small dehumidifier in the closet.

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By: Chris Edwards https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/can-cold-surfaces-wring-moisture-from-dry-air/#comment-32855 Fri, 24 Feb 2023 03:30:31 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=8105#comment-32855 In reply to Chris Edwards.

A dew point calculator such as http://www.dpcalc.org/ is super-handy for figuring out target indoor dew points. For example, if the inside of my window frames are at 7℃, I’d need to maintain an indoor dew point of 4℃ or less to avoid mould. In a continental winter that might be no big deal, but on the coast it’s quite a challenge!

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By: Chris Edwards https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/can-cold-surfaces-wring-moisture-from-dry-air/#comment-32854 Fri, 24 Feb 2023 03:21:08 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=8105#comment-32854 This has me wondering about where to place the intake for a (heat-exchange) ventilation system – I’m thinking that air on the cool side of the house should have a lower dew point, and therefore be preferable to use. It would also make sense to ventilate more during the night when the air is drier (in absolute terms). Climate here is a cool/temperate but generally damp marine climate.

At present the house tends to grow mould on the aluminium window frames and on curtains in poorly-ventilated bedrooms, and it’s very hard to heat the house without the indoor dew point becoming undesirably high in terms of condensation. The frames are not thermally broken and are often only a couple of K above the OAT. And the curtains can be their own worst enemy, as their insulative property causes it to be colder on the window side in winter, leading to increased RH, as they’re exposed to the same dew point conditions as the rest of the indoor air.

I always got a chuckle out of Joe Lstiburek’s jocular euphemism for condensation: “accidental dehumidification”!

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By: Bill Sachs https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/can-cold-surfaces-wring-moisture-from-dry-air/#comment-32846 Wed, 22 Feb 2023 23:37:49 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=8105#comment-32846 I have an issue with mold on the inside wall of a small closet on my second floor. The closet is right next to the bathroom and the ductwork is behind the wall. Any ideas on how I can remedy this? The house is in St. Louis so we have quite a bit of humidity in the summer.

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By: chris https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/can-cold-surfaces-wring-moisture-from-dry-air/#comment-32842 Tue, 21 Feb 2023 22:41:58 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=8105#comment-32842 In reply to Allison Bailes.

Great article. Just sent it to my son to explain why his big bean bag type chair on our cold floor ( concrete slab ) and up against his wall will have moisture under it in the winter.

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By: LeeH https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/can-cold-surfaces-wring-moisture-from-dry-air/#comment-32841 Tue, 21 Feb 2023 18:53:54 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=8105#comment-32841 In reply to RoyC.

We have a fiberglass Therma Tru with foam that’s performed pretty well. Just checked its temperature. Room temp 67-68F, wall surface 65-66F, door surface 63-64F, except right at the edge I get around 59F. It’s 22F outside.

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By: Allison Bailes https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/can-cold-surfaces-wring-moisture-from-dry-air/#comment-32839 Tue, 21 Feb 2023 16:45:36 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=8105#comment-32839 In reply to Alex Kessler.

Thanks, Alex! Glad you liked it.

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By: Allison Bailes https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/can-cold-surfaces-wring-moisture-from-dry-air/#comment-32838 Tue, 21 Feb 2023 16:45:18 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=8105#comment-32838 In reply to RoyC.

Two great questions, Roy. The Passive House community has good doors because they require it. Unfortunately, I think they’re still pretty expensive.

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By: RoyC https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/can-cold-surfaces-wring-moisture-from-dry-air/#comment-32837 Tue, 21 Feb 2023 16:42:27 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=8105#comment-32837 This reminds me of my steel front door this past Christmas when the temperature got down to zero and it started frosting on the inside. Does anyone make a front door that is well-insulated, air-tight, and good-looking? Why do my cars have better doors than my house?

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