Comments on: Preparing an Old Home for Electrification, Part 2 https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/preparing-an-old-home-for-electrification-part-2/ Building science knowledge, HVAC design, & fun Thu, 12 Oct 2023 19:13:34 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.6.2 By: Don Myers https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/preparing-an-old-home-for-electrification-part-2/#comment-34565 Fri, 08 Sep 2023 00:34:04 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=8047#comment-34565 Allison,
“(You have to add the A and B currents for the total because the electricity comes in through two mains.)”
Your 200 amp service would actually have a continuous load capacity of 160 amps (80% of breaker rating)
Each phase “A” and “B” would be individually rated for this load. (continuous load per NEC is considered 3 hours or more.) The typical circuit breaker is thermal/magnetic and will handle 100% load, and can carry over 100% loads for a short period of time without any issues, such as the starting current for compressors and motors. We typically refer to loads in watts as it takes into account the different voltage needs of the circuits.

As you mentioned there are very few loads that would run “continuously”, EVSE’s are probably one of the few heavy loads that would meet this criteria. (unless someone was running a HP mini-split during a 100 year artic blast) 🙂 The 120 volt loads are typically minimal and short term, and only affect the phase they are connected to.

With the efficiency increases in appliances and home construction the common 200 amp services are more than adequate for most homeowners. EV’s may be the outlier to electrical needs.
As you mentioned there are circuit splitters for EVSE’s , also people with multiple EV’s can use smart EVSE’s. They will throttle the load for multiple EV’s charging at the same time so they will limit the amperage to only one circuit.

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By: Stacy Long https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/preparing-an-old-home-for-electrification-part-2/#comment-34563 Thu, 07 Sep 2023 15:23:33 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=8047#comment-34563 In reply to John Weil.

Some of mine are split and others aren’t. The last time an electrician came over, I was told it would not work to have any more wires running through the circular hole under the 200 amp panel because it was already too tight.

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By: RoyC https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/preparing-an-old-home-for-electrification-part-2/#comment-34562 Thu, 07 Sep 2023 14:43:22 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=8047#comment-34562 In reply to Alexander G Riccio.

I agree with Alexander. I had problems with a range hood not working at all and some GFCI outlets not working. I went into the panel to check the connections on the neutral and ground bus bars and could easily tighten each screw a half turn. This solved my problems. I would imagine the original electrician properly tightened these connections but the bus bar might have “stretched” since then.

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By: RoyC https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/preparing-an-old-home-for-electrification-part-2/#comment-34561 Thu, 07 Sep 2023 14:39:24 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=8047#comment-34561 In reply to Allison Bailes.

My previous house was all electric with a 200 amp panel. I found the “extraordinary circumstance” that tripped the main breaker. A utility transformer failed and we lost power for several hours on a winter day. When the power was restored, two heat pumps with strip heat and an electric resistance water heater all came on to recover the drop in temperature during the outage. I turned on the microwave and that was enough to trip the main breaker. What we need is smarter appliances that don’t immediately turn on after a power outage. There needs to be some kind of staging or at least a time delay to prevent this from happening.

When I am home during a power outage, I would like to turn off the heat pump so that I can turn it back on manually after the power is restored and line voltage is stable. Unfortunately, I can’t do that because I have electronic thermostats that cannot be turned off until the power is restored. I guess I could flip breakers, but that is not as convenient.

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By: Paul Szymkiewicz https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/preparing-an-old-home-for-electrification-part-2/#comment-34560 Thu, 07 Sep 2023 13:54:39 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=8047#comment-34560 In reply to Allison Bailes.

Allison, monitoring is on my to-do list. You’re right, it is unlikely, although NEC requires and has procedures laid out for main service panel load calculation. This, in my experience, is seldom checked in new construction (single-family), and left to the electrician on the project to do it right.

The EV chargers have become one of the largest and most consistent current users in single-family homes. There are very few, if any, appliances that draw 25+Amp for hours on end.

One advice I would give to those planning on doing major upgrades in preparation for going all-electric: involve your local jurisdiction’s building inspector. An electrical permit to do panel replacement and some rewiring will be inexpensive compared to a roll of Romex these days! Whether you’re doing the work yourself, or hire an electrician, an inspector can be an additional set of eyes to catch mistakes, or even give you tips.

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By: John Weil https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/preparing-an-old-home-for-electrification-part-2/#comment-34553 Thu, 07 Sep 2023 00:42:17 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=8047#comment-34553 Hi Allison,
When talking about “every slot in the panel already has a breaker in it”, is that before or after replacing some of the 15 and 20 amp breakers with skinnier, two per slot(?) models? Though I suspect there is a limit to how far one could take that approach.

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By: ANDRE BUSTAMANTE https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/preparing-an-old-home-for-electrification-part-2/#comment-34551 Wed, 06 Sep 2023 23:20:31 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=8047#comment-34551 The electricians said people get way too worked up over knob and tube, especially as it relates to lighting. People get in trouble when they plug in window units and hair dryers or pile insulation on top of it so it can’t work as intended. Their advice was to install air conditioning and not worry about the knob and tube.
We did just that and are very happy with the heat pump as part of a dual fuel system

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By: Alexander G Riccio https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/preparing-an-old-home-for-electrification-part-2/#comment-34550 Wed, 06 Sep 2023 22:28:36 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=8047#comment-34550 It’s worth mentioning: if you’re installing high amp appliances, you should consider spending the extra few bucks on the higher end receptacles, and DEFINITELY use a torque screwdriver/wrench for the connections. Everybody should be torquing all screw connections as is, but I’m basically the only one who bothers. It’s just way more important with the higher amp draws for electrified homes.

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By: Steve Balsere https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/preparing-an-old-home-for-electrification-part-2/#comment-34549 Wed, 06 Sep 2023 21:55:12 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=8047#comment-34549 I have a house on southwestern Pa with a 140,000 BTU oil furnace, no AC. I am looking at a whole house heat pump, maybe 5 tons. The load center is a 200 A. unit with empty spaces. By the way, house was built in the late 1800’s, plaster walls, some insulation in the attic. 2900 square ft on two levels with a basement under about half of the structure. Any advice would be appreciated.

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By: Allison Bailes https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/preparing-an-old-home-for-electrification-part-2/#comment-34548 Wed, 06 Sep 2023 19:57:12 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=8047#comment-34548 In reply to Paul Szymkiewicz.

Paul: My quick sum of your loads gives me just a bit less than 200 amps. But the thing about electrical loads (same with heating, cooling, and hot water) is that it would take extraordinary circumstances for them all to be running at once. Have you done any monitoring to see what you actual max current might be?

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