Comments on: Uncovering the Secrets of an Old House https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/uncovering-the-secrets-of-an-old-house/ Building science knowledge, HVAC design, & fun Thu, 07 Sep 2023 23:23:44 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.6.2 By: Tom https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/uncovering-the-secrets-of-an-old-house/#comment-34564 Thu, 07 Sep 2023 23:23:44 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=8306#comment-34564 We live in the East Bay of the San Francisco area. Local winds are predominantly from the coast, but northern and northeastern winds can be hot ones. Our house is a 1956 construction California Ranch of 2000 sf livable space, plus garage and sunroom.

When we first moved in, we discovered that:
– Our electrical wiring was a mixture of copper and aluminum. We replaced the aluminum and upgraded the amperage for the house.
– Water delivery was all iron pipes. Code still requires iron for sewage. We have replaced the delivery pipes with copper using, using various remodels, and a water main leak in the front yard, to complete that replacement.
– The sewage line in the main bathroom has very little angle to it.
– The single-pane glass windows are mostly set in off-site (prefab) milled aluminum frames. We have 4 windows (all on the north side of the house) within the sunroom whose frames were built on-site as part of an early, remodel. They all bleed in the winter.

We had an “energy audit” about 8 years ago in order to qualify for available energy, efficiency of upgrades. Results included:
– Zero insulation in any of the exterior walls 2×4 framing (16” centers)
– 1956 1-3” blown-in rockwool in the attic with lots of penetrations in the ceiling from past remodels and installations (e.g., cable TV, etc.)
– Soffit vents (along the entire exterior rim of the house) without chutes that ensure air flow up to the ridgeline vent (original roof was wood shake and replaced due to fire hazard/insurance coverage)
– Then existing gas heater and water heater were so old they weren’t even “energy star.”
– Ducts were so leaky they didn’t even register as providing minimal air flow
– Then existing gas heater was heating the sunroom via floor vents fed by under the floor ducting.

The order of recommended for remediation:
– 1st: Replace heater, air ducts, & water heater
– 2nd: Attic air sealing & insulation
– 3rd: When opened (as in during remodels), insulate walls. And, using spray foam (2-holes, 1 at top, 1 at bottom) along exterior of exterior walls between each 2×4 was also suggested.

We did #1. We also added solar panels while the NEMS were more favorable to home owners.

We are now looking into the attic air sealing and insulation before we retire. And, I also wonder if spray foam along our western facing exterior wall may help keep that side of the house from overheating (as it often does by the end of a 80-100° day).

We are confused at this point about the right amount and kind(s) of attic work.
– Sealing the ceiling seems to be a given, so we are ready to do that.
– We’ve had rodents up in the attic with some minor damage to the ductwork so we also need to remove the existing rockwool and sanitize that space. One vendor wants to replace one duct. The others don’t think that’s needed.
– So far, every insulation contractor that we have talked to is recommending fiberglass batting in order not to block the airflow from the soffit vents to the ridgeline vents. And, in order to not have the insulation blown by the airflows (such as by strong winds).
– Code requires R-38 as minimum but insulation rebate requires at least R-44. I’m not sure which is going to be better for the future, given climate change and the summer’s temperatures
– According to one contractor, they would lay one row of R-30 batts between ceiling joists and another (R-19) row of batting perpendicular across the ceiling joists.
– And, a few contractors have recommended adding radiant barrier sheeting attached to the roof joists.
– No one so far recommends insulation of the attic over the garage, or they only adding enough to come up to the top of the joists. That design seems to me to suffer from the “fluffy” issue that you describe in one of your articles, defeating the R-value applied over the living area. Really not sure what to do.
– Finally, there are two entrances to the attic: one in the garage, and one in the closet of a back room . One contractor, an attic bag above each. Others have recommended sealing off the 2nd entrance. How can we identify how the bag would impact the overall performance of the insulation of the attic?

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By: Dr. William C Goetz https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/uncovering-the-secrets-of-an-old-house/#comment-33679 Fri, 09 Jun 2023 14:47:15 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=8306#comment-33679 I have been involved in the building restoration industry for quite sometime. I even got to teach energy efficient construction at the University of Kentucky.
I love doing restoration work on old buildings and houses. It is fun to reverse engineer construction methodologies from 150 years to date. This is fun !! Enjoy the challenge and reminisce on construction methods from years ago.
Dr. G

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By: Jim Smith https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/uncovering-the-secrets-of-an-old-house/#comment-33667 Wed, 07 Jun 2023 01:00:10 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=8306#comment-33667 We have a 1954 ranch about a mile away from you. Having the sewer line replaced finally, we discovered that not only did it take a right hand jog towards the downhill neighbors before turning back left and uphill and then going out to the street, BUT, there was a galvanized water line laid on top of it the whole way except that it went further uphill to the meter where the sewer line went to the street AND there was a braised joint copper water line on top of the galvanized, inch for inch ! We bought from the original owners and have lived here for 33 years with the copper line as the service line into the house (there was galvanized throughout inside though !).

My best guess, is that the owner, who was a Civil Engineer from GaTech and who designed his own piping system to handle rainwater from downspouts etc., found out that the builder had put in galvanized and told him to swap it to copper. We won’t talk about the 2×4 rafters 24″o.c., nor the partial french drain in the basement…

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By: Dale Dellario https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/uncovering-the-secrets-of-an-old-house/#comment-33666 Wed, 07 Jun 2023 00:34:53 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=8306#comment-33666 You’d expect with a 127 year old house we lifted then set back down on a new basement we would find mysteries. So far nothing especially mysterious, just a bunch of variable quality modifications over the decades. Well, there are a few mysteries. Why did someone 70 or 80 years ago take off all the ginger bread and cover the house with stucco?? There are a very few other homes in town that are stucco though those are newer making ours historically unique. Another, at some point someone replaced a 4′ x 10′ section of subfloor and last 4′ of floor joists in the SE corner of the building. When I opened the wall in that corner to pass an HRV duct up, I noticed that there is sheathing on the exterior side, not the back of the old siding that I find when I open other walls, so apparently the rot found its way up into the wall or started there below a window in that corner. They supported the break in the floor joists with a beam on piers and for good measure set it a 1/2″ high causing a ridge in the floor. I properly fixed the floor joists before lifting the house thus getting rid of the ridge. Mystery…what caused the rot? Interestingly, that corner of the house refused to set down on the new foundation, stubbornly hovering 1/2″ above it so when stucco cracks began to appear I just shimmed it where it was.

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By: Allison Bailes https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/uncovering-the-secrets-of-an-old-house/#comment-33661 Tue, 06 Jun 2023 16:05:00 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=8306#comment-33661 In reply to Steven McCray.

Steven: Wow! Yeah, I’m sure removing that ceiling was quite a job. Removing any plaster is difficult, but making it thicker and putting copper tubing in it would definitely up the difficulty level.

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By: Steven McCray https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/uncovering-the-secrets-of-an-old-house/#comment-33660 Tue, 06 Jun 2023 15:26:47 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=8306#comment-33660 Great article. I am in the process of renovating a 1950s midcentury modern gem in New Hampshire. This house was built in 1953 a few years after Levittown and their mass-produced radiant slab houses. Our house has miles of 1/2 inch copper piping in the slabs (and under the slabs) which was still operational as recently as last year.

One surprising thing we’ve found was a vast network of copper pipe embedded in 1+ inches of plaster in the ceilings. This occured over the parts of the house which have a wood-framed floor. This was apparently a more elegant solution than a couple of cast iron radiators. Above the radiant ceiling was 7 inches of rockwool and a foil barrier. The plaster was reinforced with metal lathe, rebar and of course the copper piping. They doubled up the flat roof 2×8 joists to 9 inches on center to support this ceiling. Removing that ceiling was not fun.

The amount of oil that must have been burned over the past 70 years to keep this nearly glass house warm with a radiant ceiling is staggering. We are in the process of bringing this MCM into the 21st century.

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