Comments on: ENERGY STAR Version 3 vs. the HERS Index

By: Mill Creek Carpet

Mill Creek Carpet — Fri, 31 Aug 2012 21:29:51 +0000

Very helpful article! Would
Very helpful article! Would you be willing to possibly work together on a follow up article based on the comments? We at Mill Creek would love to work with you. Thanks.

By: air conditioning Tulsa

air conditioning Tulsa — Mon, 13 Aug 2012 23:14:10 +0000

Everyone here makes valid
Everyone here makes valid points, but it seems like the main point of this article is which rating to use in your marketing materials. It seems to me like it would make sense to use the one that most of your potential and/or existing customers would recognize. What's the point of touting a rating when your clients have never even heard of it, much less understand what it means?

By: Casey

Casey — Tue, 09 Aug 2011 00:14:30 +0000

Green buiding programs that
Green buiding programs that are still requiring the HERS target with the SAF (Size Adjustment Factor) included makes sense, because they are GREEN building programs, and building larger isn't typically the greenest thing one can do. It is a way to even the playing field where it is typically more difficult for smaller homes to hit the target numbers. HERS is an efficiency standard, and works well as suck, but applying the SAF is an attempt to change it from a pure efficiency standard to something that is more of aN MPG standard. It is taking something that is good for comparing homes to better versions of themselves and attempting to change it into a tool for comparing homes to one another. In doing so it seems that it doesn't end up doing a great job at either. As a HERS rater I am interested to see what the market becomes for my services, but E Star is a program that should require rigor. I think RESNET would be better suited to focus their efforts in boosting the need for HERS in a different area. How about the jumbled and poorly designed Energy Improvement Mortgage market? It seems the perfect time to take that one on.

By: Roseville HVAC

Roseville HVAC — Sat, 23 Jul 2011 18:47:15 +0000

From what you've said here, I
From what you've said here, I think homeowners would be better served by the Energy Star rating, rather than the "HERS" rating. I would want performance taken into effect, not just the potential.

By: Kevin Virobik

Kevin Virobik — Tue, 19 Jul 2011 03:22:44 +0000

With the input of home
With the input of home builders, in Wisconsin we have morphed the successful Wisconsin Energy Star Homes (WESH) program into the Focus on Energy New Homes Program (Focus handles energy efficiency rewards and programs in the state).

The program is just kicking off with some WESH homes still in the pipeline, but it looks like the program has the opportunity to be a win-win for the homebuilders and the program.

WESH was always designed to give the homebuilders maximum flexibility in meeting the programs’ performance requirements. The prescriptive measures in v3 did not make as much sense as performance testing if the goal was to ensure that homes were built tight with appropriate ventilation.

Information about the Wisconsin program can be found here: http://www.focusonenergy.com/Residential/New-Home/

By: David Butler

David Butler — Mon, 18 Jul 2011 04:26:59 +0000

In my previous comment I
In my previous comment I listed the new size adjustment factor as one of the things that causes HERS Index to diverge from the REM energy consumption model. That would be incorrect. The SAF of course is applied to the target not the actual index. My bad.

For those interested in other REM/Rate settings that are handled differently in the HERS index than in the consumption model, I started a list: HERS Index differences

This is not a criticism of the HERS Index but rather an acknowledgment of its limitations, having been designed as an asset rating tool. When the objective is to estimate energy savings for competing improvement measures, the consumption model is a more appropriate metric. For existing homes, the best way to use this metric is to calibrate the model with energy usage history, a relatively new feature of REM/Rate.

By: Les Watts

Les Watts — Sat, 16 Jul 2011 04:59:40 +0000

Good thread here with a lot
Good thread here with a lot of topics in one.

I agree with Howard in having quality builders step up and especially with Allison and David's sentiment regarding marketing the HERS and the scary thought of forgoing the TBC at a minimum. That is like buying a car that says 50MPG's without it ever having been tested. That would destroy what the HERS Index means. I don't think we will let that happen.

I think Sean hit it on the nose by bringing in appraisers and Sam is also right with having to help builders learn to market the properties EE features. Getting a log of HERS Index with the projected annual energy costs would give some basis for adding extra value, but those homes need (must be) tested to have any sort of credibility. If we can add actual $ value to the value in what we do, watch out. This would get builders and realtors to pay attention.

My thought with V3 is that with all of the big box builders that are marketing 100% EStar homes will have a tough time backing out by saying "the program is too tough". That will look weak. When you look at V3, it is asking for a little more, but more of what it is asking for is more verification. (I don't like the thought of measuring CFM's of an ERV on a 2 Story Gable though...Ladders, balometers, and lap siding sound like a disaster. Guess I will have to get proficient at traversing ducts) Anyway, I feel that these large builders will find HVAC contractors (because that is the REAL problem) to step up. If they encapsulate their attics and bring the ducts inside, some of the problems go away, but I think the big box builders stay with V3 and move the market. I also agree that low income funding will also stick with and learn to comply. Not saying it is going to be fun, but once we get through a few, I think the program will set apart the builders that do it from the pack. V3 has its flaws in the HVAC checklists, but it is time to set the bar higher! It is time to progress.

By: David Butler

David Butler — Sat, 16 Jul 2011 02:21:13 +0000

Allison, in Rem vernacular,
Allison, in Rem vernacular, annual loads and annual consumption are essentially the same metric. The only difference is that the later reflects HVAC box efficiency. I should have used the term annual consumption. My bad.

But the point I was making is that the HERS index doesn't scale directly with the consumption metric, for the very reasons Sam brought up. Even if we build the reference home, several tweaks in the index (infiltration, SCF, and probably some others) cause it to diverge from the consumption model as you tighten the envelope or make other changes.

By: Allison Bailes

Allison Bailes — Sat, 16 Jul 2011 01:34:33 +0000

Sean: Yes,
Sean: Yes, the third party inspections are key, especially the pre-drywall inspection required by ENERGY STAR but not for a HERS rating.

Tim: Yes, quality installation is an important part of ES V3. In fact, the 2 HVAC checklist names start with "HVAC System Quality Installation." And HVAC is a huge in qualifying ENERGY STAR homes.

By: Allison Bailes

Allison Bailes — Sat, 16 Jul 2011 01:30:08 +0000

David: The
David: The presentation in that link is looking at actual energy savings, not the comparison of the rated home to the reference home. I think Sam's question was about the actual meaning of the HERS Index, which doesn't have anything to do with how the home might actually perform, except to the extent that the model matches the real home.

So, that's the HERS geek-speak. When builders, raters, or others look at a HERS Index of 85 and tell people that that house is going to save them 15% on their energy bills, that's where the problem comes in. It's only 15% better than the same house built to the 2004/2006 IECC, if the rater modeled it accurately and to the extent that REM is and the HERS technical standards are accurate.

Anyway, this is a great discussion to have and probably deserving of its own article. By now we've scared off the less techie readers so we can go further and talk about even geekier things.