https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/in-or-out-where-does-the-paper-facing-of-batt-insulation-go/ Building science knowledge, HVAC design, & fun Wed, 03 Nov 2021 13:23:46 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.6.2 https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/in-or-out-where-does-the-paper-facing-of-batt-insulation-go/#comment-5383 Sun, 08 Jun 2014 20:25:53 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=in-or-out-where-does-the-paper-facing-of-batt-insulation-go#comment-5383 I have been a drywall
I have been a drywall contractor for over 30 years and I can say unequivocally that stapling the insulation tabs over the studs (not to the sides of the studs) will cause the drywall screws to pop, if not right away certainly over time. The two staple tabs of insulation paper laid on top of each other to the nailing surface of the stud would seem to be an imperceptible discrepancy (perhaps a 1/16″ or less). However, stapling insulation in this manner creates and improper seating of the drywall during installation. This is in part due to the fact that insulation installed with its staple tabs to the stud face tends to “balloon” out of the stud bays making it harder to to get proper “seat” to the framing, for the drywall. Beyond “ballooning” even the small amount of paper tabs over the studs causes failed or not fully driven in screws. This is particularly the case at the corners where the drywall tends to be more fragile. Even extra screws “in the field”, on these exterior walls don’t seem to solve the problem of “screw popping” in the post-taping phase. Drywall is a finish product which one will look at for the duration of the homes existence. Lines of popped screws are highly evident once the walls have been painted and are not easily fixed. If there is no evidence of higher insulating performance by stapling the tabs to the stud face then put them on the sides of the stud in the stud bay where they belong. If there is evidence of higher insulating performance by doing it that way then perhaps it is time for some smart person to invent better insulation. Maybe sticky strip on the staple tabs that would adhere to the studs sides and create a better seal. ??? Thanks.

]]> https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/in-or-out-where-does-the-paper-facing-of-batt-insulation-go/#comment-5382 Sat, 15 Mar 2014 11:49:10 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=in-or-out-where-does-the-paper-facing-of-batt-insulation-go#comment-5382 can you double up paper back
can you double up paper back insulation to fill deeper space by using 2 by 6 board studes as framing. Can I put the peper face against the outside wall and the second piece put fiberglass sides together, so the paper face of the inside paper is against the sheet rock.

]]> https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/in-or-out-where-does-the-paper-facing-of-batt-insulation-go/#comment-5381 Mon, 04 Nov 2013 22:51:14 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=in-or-out-where-does-the-paper-facing-of-batt-insulation-go#comment-5381 This is not directly related
This is not directly related to this blog post, but…. 
What are your feelings on installing rigid foam board over existing kraft paper backed fiberglass insulation batts in knee walls? What about installing rigid foam board to the underside of rafters when the rafter cavities are insulated with kraft faced fiberglass batts? Do you believe that a moisture issue could be instigated between the kraft paper and the rigid foam board? Do you believe that it is necessary and more appropriate to remove the kraft paper backed insulation and install unfaced batts prior to the rigid foam board installation? We are assuming that the use of spray polyurethane foam insulation is not an option for one reason or another.  
Thanks.

]]> https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/in-or-out-where-does-the-paper-facing-of-batt-insulation-go/#comment-5380 Thu, 24 Oct 2013 22:49:27 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=in-or-out-where-does-the-paper-facing-of-batt-insulation-go#comment-5380 Allison, 

Allison, 
Is the image in this article available for use? The Format Group would like to acquire permission to use it in a training manual titled Building Envelope Book 1: Principles by Carpenters International Training Fund.  
 
Regards, 
Brenda Wright 
Permissions Liaison

]]> https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/in-or-out-where-does-the-paper-facing-of-batt-insulation-go/#comment-5379 Thu, 06 Jun 2013 19:30:15 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=in-or-out-where-does-the-paper-facing-of-batt-insulation-go#comment-5379 A few years back in my locale
A few years back in my locale (central Pa.)contractors were insulating then sheeting the inside of the rooms with plastic. I guess this was someones great idea on tightening of the house as far as infiltration. I’m not sure if this was a code and it was required or not I just know that they did it. I do know now that they longer allow this practices at all. I guess the principle was not to create a vapor retarder but vapor preventer. They learned through trial and errror as to what did happen. The plastic ended up condensing moisture on the backside. The moisture ran down the plastic and started rotting the treated base/sill plates out. Not a good scenario as this could lead to your prverbial black mold and such. Anyway I would have to say it would have to have been caused by air and moisture infiltration from the outside. Thus fitting in with the subject of improper air sealing. Thats my take. whats yours Allison?

]]> https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/in-or-out-where-does-the-paper-facing-of-batt-insulation-go/#comment-5378 Sat, 23 Feb 2013 18:43:17 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=in-or-out-where-does-the-paper-facing-of-batt-insulation-go#comment-5378 My answer: neither. &amp
My answer: neither.  
The installers just use the paper to hide their bad installation behind. The paper looks perfect, but you reach behind it and there’s nothing there. I’m so tired of having to tear apart a whole house full of perfect looking paper to reveal the hideousness beneath. There is no way the paper confers enough benefits to make having it worthwhile in my climate, and the code doesn’t require it here either. I like to go paperless!

]]> https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/in-or-out-where-does-the-paper-facing-of-batt-insulation-go/#comment-5377 Tue, 19 Feb 2013 00:26:29 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=in-or-out-where-does-the-paper-facing-of-batt-insulation-go#comment-5377 Abe K.:
Abe K.: You’re welcome, Abe! 
 
Frank M: Side-stapling leaves that channel for air movement in each cavity, so what you found isn’t surprising. Of course, if air is moving in the cavity at all, it can move right through the fiberglass, too, so air-sealing is critical. 
 
Debbie: I think the only way to do that effectively would be with modular homes, where they building inside out. The drywall goes in before the exterior sheathing does. 
 
Wynn P.: Thanks! I appreciate that, especially coming from a fellow Summer Camper. 
 
Robert P.: Drying potential is important! 
 
Ron L.: I don’t think you’re posting your question in the right place. 
 
Chris D.: Thanks! Great points about the problems with faced batts. And thanks, too, for the additional evidence of diffusion not being the problem, even in cold climates. Now, how you can stand to live in a place with up to 25 heating degree years of cold weather each winter is beyond me, but it’s good to have people willing to test the principles of building science in extreme climates. I like our 3000 HDD in Atlanta. 
 

]]> https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/in-or-out-where-does-the-paper-facing-of-batt-insulation-go/#comment-5376 Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:26:15 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=in-or-out-where-does-the-paper-facing-of-batt-insulation-go#comment-5376 Allison — your comments
Allison — your comments about the irrelevance of the location of kraft facing on fiberglass batts are spot-on, and for all the reasons you iterate. You’ve added yet another nail in the coffin of the archaic kraft facing/retarder/barrier system.  
 
But, just in case anyone still buys and uses faced batts, I’ll add two additional comments: 
 
1) You CANNOT do a decent job of installing that which you can’t see. And that’s what’s going on when you attempt to hang faced fiberglass. The damn facing obscures your work, slowing down the installation and resulting in a poor insulation grade. Just buy un-faced batts, install them to Grade 1 and build your air and moisture control systems in another layer (big separate discussion). 
 
2) I have over the years disassembled and remodeling thousands of residential buildings in Montana, all at 8000-9000 heating degree days. Many of these had faced batts installed in the building cavities, with facings installed in every imaginable configuration — up, down, in, out, torn, taped, stapled here, stapled there — and I have never ONCE seen evidence of moisture accumulation resulting from diffusion in these building cavities. It just does not occur. Lots of damage does occur of course from bulk moisture and air migration (another big separate discussion). 
 
So I can agree with you with great certainty: The location of kraft facing is irrelevant because the entire system is an impotent, lousy, fake control layer anyway. 

]]> https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/in-or-out-where-does-the-paper-facing-of-batt-insulation-go/#comment-5375 Sun, 17 Feb 2013 20:54:26 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=in-or-out-where-does-the-paper-facing-of-batt-insulation-go#comment-5375 I have a 2 storey home with
I have a 2 storey home with upper & lower heat pumps-how should I set both thermostats-It has a open foyer-I now have upper unit set at 65 degrees & lower unit at 70 degrees-not sure if this is most effective-also have gas fire logs I use -I use ceiling fan in lower great room in low winter direction-clockwise-

]]> https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/in-or-out-where-does-the-paper-facing-of-batt-insulation-go/#comment-5374 Sat, 16 Feb 2013 20:57:23 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=in-or-out-where-does-the-paper-facing-of-batt-insulation-go#comment-5374 Thanks Alison  &lt
Thanks Alison 
 
Here in mixed climate mid-Atlantic, my preference is for a wall design with the following qualities: 
– permeable both inwards and outwards for drying at both seasonal extremes 
– rigid foam exterior to bring framing inside the thermal envelope- minimize conductivity 
– avoid fiberglass altogether or unless one is confident of an air sealed cavity- as in flash and batt/ air-sealed drywall or similar.  
– no kraft paper 
– better yet- Larson truss or dbl framed wall.  
– did I say avoid fiberglass?

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