Comments on: GUEST POST: Spray Foam, Infrared Cameras, & the New Big Holes https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/guest-post-spray-foam-infrared-cameras-the-new-big-holes/ Building science knowledge, HVAC design, & fun Tue, 15 Jun 2021 13:50:29 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.6.2 By: RetroFoam https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/guest-post-spray-foam-infrared-cameras-the-new-big-holes/#comment-3795 Wed, 16 May 2012 10:26:38 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=guest-post-spray-foam-infrared-cameras-the-new-big-holes#comment-3795 Planning, persistence and
Planning, persistence and homework major up to and during the set up usually go a really lengthy way.  
 
-Ella

]]>
By: Paul McGovern https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/guest-post-spray-foam-infrared-cameras-the-new-big-holes/#comment-3794 Sat, 07 Apr 2012 23:48:01 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=guest-post-spray-foam-infrared-cameras-the-new-big-holes#comment-3794 well done jamie & all
well done jamie & all … it is a timely and relevent subject which if not addressed, will lead to the demise of foam insulation. foam companies should realize that their longevity depends upon the effectiveness of their finished product. if untested installations cause moisture & IAQ problems, foam will be on the shelf with the Dodo bird.

]]>
By: Debbie https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/guest-post-spray-foam-infrared-cameras-the-new-big-holes/#comment-3793 Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:53:25 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=guest-post-spray-foam-infrared-cameras-the-new-big-holes#comment-3793 I’ve been inspecting and
I’ve been inspecting and testing unvented attic installs for a while. first certified as an energy rater in 1999. 
 
 
 
while thermal scan is a good visual, the voids & honeycombs in the foam (open cell in my climate) are visible IF you 
 
know where & how to look for them. 
 
 
 
honeycombs show up when you place a led flashlight in contact with the foam. a full foam will not glow 
 
as the voids (honeycombs) will. 
 
 
 
by visually inspecting the roof to eaves to attic floor install of the foam you can see when foam has not closed off areas.  
 
 
 
I mark all with spray paint prior to blower door testing unvented attic install. homeowner or foam installer can ‘feel’ the leaks marked prior to testing, and locate any missed in visual inspection. 
 
 
 
rather than working with all foam companies, I’ve learned which installers do good work..ie installers who want to do top quality work. I recommend to my clients certain installers..whether or not they stay at the original company or not. 
 
 
 
it isn’t the company but the installer who makes the performance 
 
of unvented attics work. 
 
 
 
in almost all cases the foam installer will show up for the testing.

]]>
By: Ted Kidd https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/guest-post-spray-foam-infrared-cameras-the-new-big-holes/#comment-3792 Sat, 24 Mar 2012 01:32:17 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=guest-post-spray-foam-infrared-cameras-the-new-big-holes#comment-3792 Fantastic post Jamie!!! If I
Fantastic post Jamie!!! If I might be so bold as to offer an addendum: 
 
Air leaks are invisible and even the best foam guy is handicapped by hoods and masks. Only a blower door will make missed leaks visible. Once turned off they become invisible again, trying to “remember” the holes is not the best approach to QC.  
 
I carry fluorescent spray paint. Great for making invisible holes visible after the camera and fan are turned off. (Wear goggles or expect to get spots on your glasses.)

]]>
By: Jamie Kaye https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/guest-post-spray-foam-infrared-cameras-the-new-big-holes/#comment-3791 Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:55:39 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=guest-post-spray-foam-infrared-cameras-the-new-big-holes#comment-3791 Sydney – Cheers to the Level
Sydney – Cheers to the Level 1 Thermography. I don’t understand how so many can be running around with a camera without knowing how powerful that tool is!! You gotta understand ‘energy in motion’ to use it, not just what the image looks like! 
 
David – I am in your boat…again! If a good contractor has demonstrated their ability and are testing themselves before leaving, then I would feel the same, with some amount of blind QA. I am working on this with our town currently to have 10 – 15% blindly checked to help the homeowners get more of what they are paying for and help avoid some of these problems. Thanks again, and I also don’t want to lump them all together, and definitely not as “snake oil” salesmen, but those resistant to testing have reason to do so and it is not for the good of the job. 
 

]]>
By: David Butler https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/guest-post-spray-foam-infrared-cameras-the-new-big-holes/#comment-3790 Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:47:10 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=guest-post-spray-foam-infrared-cameras-the-new-big-holes#comment-3790 Jamie wrote: 
Jamie wrote: 
> I also think the “fox watching the hen house” can cause problems 
 
Just to be clear, my position is that foam insulators should be using a BD to QA their crews, not that this becomes a substitute for 3rd party verification. 
 
That being said, if I were a 3rd party verifier and I have good experience with a foam crew who tests its work as a matter of process, I would be inclined to accept their final test reports — subject to unannounced spot testing of course — to the extent allowed by whatever program the home may be participating in. 
 
I see the blower door as a “tool of the trade” for any insulator who sells air tightness, much like a plumber uses a pressure gauge to test water and gas lines during rough-in. Ditto for HVAC contractors and duct pressurization testing. Your point about using thermography with BD to identify weak spots is spot on. Thanks for bringing this up! 
 
I should also clarify that it’s not my intent to imply deception with the snake oil salesman label. But the end result is nonetheless the same. Interestingly, in my experience, foam crews who use a blower door quickly learn how to be efficient both in terms of time and material, so the price objection for adding a quality control step is a red herring in my opinion. In any case, crews who do it right deserve a fair price for their work. As with much of what of we do, builder education is the key. And even though I don’t often recommend foam on my projects, I will always fully support a foam crew who demonstrates superior workmanship. You just can’t get there without QA.

]]>
By: Sydney Roberts https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/guest-post-spray-foam-infrared-cameras-the-new-big-holes/#comment-3789 Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:13:59 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=guest-post-spray-foam-infrared-cameras-the-new-big-holes#comment-3789 Thanks for bringing up this
Thanks for bringing up this important issue. Despite asking my project manager/Rater to pressure test the newly encapsulated attic while the foam truck was still onsite, I had to have major repair as you described to my own home 6 years ago. I warned them that I would be checking the work. It’s just much more difficult to seal over Swiss cheese & in tight quarters than new construction. In our Rater & BPI courses, I always recommend including performance requirements in the contract. 
 
Btw, yay for folks who have earned Level I Thermographer cert!

]]>
By: Jamie Kaye https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/guest-post-spray-foam-infrared-cameras-the-new-big-holes/#comment-3788 Thu, 22 Mar 2012 03:23:21 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=guest-post-spray-foam-infrared-cameras-the-new-big-holes#comment-3788 Thanks Allison for posting
Thanks Allison for posting this article. I am very passionate about this as it has provided for some unneeded push-back against the product while many of those insulators are not paying attention to the snowball of issues they are creating. Although Chris is right about some of the potential IAQ problems that seem to be lingering, I am still in the camp of getting a good installer and bring in that fresh-air! I do love the foam! 
 
Jeremy: Thanks for the comment. I agree that all spray foam contractors and HVAC contractors should be using the tools we do, but I also think the “fox watching the hen house” can cause problems. Many of them are “snake oil” salesmen, but there are some great ones around here that want to be different and care about what they do. The problem is people are buying price and not the costs!  
 
George: I have never done a IR survey for an ES home. I know that is was possible, but with thermography, timing is critical, so I am okay with these builders having to let us see the foam and touch it and stop moving so fast. This also touches on Charles’ comment with the drywall being rushed after the insulation. That is not the best way to look out for the long term sustainability of a home! 
 
Clough: I see that often. In the big picture, the “Flat vs. Lumpy” article by Allison comes into mind. 
 
Chris: Thanks for the “Thanks!” EVER has been such a good partner for me. You all are always there and always thinking and engaged. Thank you all!! You couldn’t have said it better “Preparation, patience and diligence leading up to and during the installation tend to go a really long way.” 
 
David: Thanks and I agree with you that if those details are run by the homeowner or builder anyway, then put that money to use elsewhere. Your insight is always profound. I often talk about your approach to “over-insulating” and how it should be planned and analyzed, not just completed. The key is to use that better defense to need less offense…in the words of Allison. The problem is we see over-insulated homes with 1 ton per 500 or 600 square feet because no one is talking!!

]]>
By: David Butler https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/guest-post-spray-foam-infrared-cameras-the-new-big-holes/#comment-3787 Wed, 21 Mar 2012 23:36:00 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=guest-post-spray-foam-infrared-cameras-the-new-big-holes#comment-3787 Great article Jamie. These
Great article Jamie. These things need to be understood by all the builders, insulators and home performance professionals who think foam is magic.  
 
Getting a good envelope is all about details. There’s no magic. Most people buy foam based on faith. I tell my clients that if they’re going to do the heavy lifting anyway (e.g, getting the details right), they might as well do it with cellulose or BIBs and apply the savings to better windows or more R-value.  
 
@Jeremy, appreciate the nod.

]]>
By: Charles Leahy https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/guest-post-spray-foam-infrared-cameras-the-new-big-holes/#comment-3786 Wed, 21 Mar 2012 17:07:55 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=guest-post-spray-foam-infrared-cameras-the-new-big-holes#comment-3786 I too agree that spray foam
I too agree that spray foam is often not the “quick fix” that a simple visual inspection or marketing materials make it out to be. And be careful of the contractors who want to apply sheetrock to the studs immediately after foam installation. In the name of hurrying the job along – and often to the praise of the homeowner – they are often covering up mistakes. We have seen many cases of foam losing adhesion to the very studs it was supposed to stick to. This is often due to when foam was applied on a cool morning – and cool studs do not allow for good adhesion like warm studs do. We also know that many installers do not fill the stud cavity completely, and when you have air gaps of greater than 5/8″ in thickness along with temperature differentials (cool sheetrock/warm studs, or vice versa) you will have micro-air circulation or eddy currents – and moving air wreaks havoc with R values as well.

]]>