https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/why-did-painters-refuse-to-paint-insulated-houses-in-the-1930s/ Building science knowledge, HVAC design, & fun Sun, 23 Oct 2022 16:13:06 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.6.2 https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/why-did-painters-refuse-to-paint-insulated-houses-in-the-1930s/#comment-6559 Tue, 19 Nov 2013 23:33:12 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=why-did-painters-refuse-to-paint-insulated-houses-in-the-1930s#comment-6559 Yup, PU is polyurethane and
Yup, PU is polyurethane and PI is polyisocyanurate. The R stands for Rigid. 
 
Maybe good to reference Straube on vapor barriers too. 
http://www.rkeleher.com/documents/Straube_on_Vapor_Barriers.pdf 
“in many high-performance enclosures none is needed” with caveats of course. 

]]> https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/why-did-painters-refuse-to-paint-insulated-houses-in-the-1930s/#comment-6558 Tue, 19 Nov 2013 23:11:55 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=why-did-painters-refuse-to-paint-insulated-houses-in-the-1930s#comment-6558 Amanda E.:
Amanda E.: I agree! 
 
John N.: Thanks and you’re welcome! 
 
Paul P.: I’m not sure what PUR/PIR are, though I’m guessing the PU is polyurethane and PI is polyisocyanurate. What’s the R stand for? 
 
Tim S.: But the point here is that we don’t need to worry so much about stopping vapor diffusion since it’s responsible for such a small percentage of problems. Rain screens are good, but when you put a vapor barrier in a wall, you reduce that assembly’s ability to dry. 
 
alan s.: Do you work for the marketing department?

]]> https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/why-did-painters-refuse-to-paint-insulated-houses-in-the-1930s/#comment-6557 Tue, 19 Nov 2013 20:05:22 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=why-did-painters-refuse-to-paint-insulated-houses-in-the-1930s#comment-6557 I discussion of ancient
I discussion of ancient building techniques that should be superceded by movement from frames and skins to composite construction where vapor barriers and breathing are combined with modern sheathings that replace wood and paint.

]]> https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/why-did-painters-refuse-to-paint-insulated-houses-in-the-1930s/#comment-6556 Tue, 19 Nov 2013 18:39:35 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=why-did-painters-refuse-to-paint-insulated-houses-in-the-1930s#comment-6556 Hiya. Yes, you’re right, I
Hiya. Yes, you’re right, I should read that again.  
 
In Germany recently, on a Passive House course, we got a calculation run-through from a building scientist of the consequences of using just one inch of PUR/PIR internally to a masonry wall with slow air leakage from inside. Not good! Not enough drying, more and more moisture.  
 
And what will happen to the joists that go through the insulation and into the masonry wall? we asked. Well of course they will decay, he said.

]]> https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/why-did-painters-refuse-to-paint-insulated-houses-in-the-1930s/#comment-6555 Tue, 19 Nov 2013 18:36:32 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=why-did-painters-refuse-to-paint-insulated-houses-in-the-1930s#comment-6555 Great way to distill the
Great way to distill the essence of Bill’s point! Simple and clear! Thank You! 
 
PS: Amanda, thank you for the pointer on Twitter to his book a couple years ago. I have the Kindle edition that goes everywhere on my iPad.

]]> https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/why-did-painters-refuse-to-paint-insulated-houses-in-the-1930s/#comment-6554 Tue, 19 Nov 2013 18:22:05 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=why-did-painters-refuse-to-paint-insulated-houses-in-the-1930s#comment-6554 Bill Rose is a treasure and
Bill Rose is a treasure and this book is one of the most beautifully written building science books there is. I’m so glad you have written about it again.

]]> https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/why-did-painters-refuse-to-paint-insulated-houses-in-the-1930s/#comment-6553 Tue, 19 Nov 2013 17:45:31 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=why-did-painters-refuse-to-paint-insulated-houses-in-the-1930s#comment-6553 John B.:
John B.: It’s definitely one of the best! I was wondering if writing about it would bring you out again. Nice to hear from you! 
 
Paul P.: Nice to hear from you again, too! See Joe Lstiburek’s article, Thick as a Brick, in which he discusses insulating mass walls in cold climates.

]]> https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/why-did-painters-refuse-to-paint-insulated-houses-in-the-1930s/#comment-6552 Tue, 19 Nov 2013 16:25:02 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=why-did-painters-refuse-to-paint-insulated-houses-in-the-1930s#comment-6552 Great post! Here in Ireland,
Great post! Here in Ireland, problems with ventilation and mould are becoming endemic as buildings become tighter and insulation becomes greater because of the lack of science/reality understanding in regs and by builders. 
 
Here, dominated by existing masonry buildings, the retrofit craze has been, and continues to be, internal ‘dry lining’ meaning internal insulation with sheets of drywall plasterboard glued to 50mm of PUR/PIR mounted on battens or glue dabs on the inside of exterior walls. Easy for the builders to install and they get to be inside out of the wet and cold, and cheaper and less aesthetically changing than exterior insulation.  
 
Clients don’t understand that the thermal and moisture concerns of internal insulation so hey on we go! 
 
After building science critiques of internal insulation the manufacturers have responded by cherrypicking the science correctly stating that moisture diffusibility is not a big problem so don’t worry – especially as the buildings are assumed to have humidity controlled ventilation in the research they provide. Of course they carefully avoid any mention of how often builders actually achieve the specified, required high level of airtightness in retrofits (almost never) nor that houses here have no humidity control (we have a damp climate). Often folk dry clothes indoors and have ineffective fans in kitchens and bathrooms adding to the moisture load. 
 
As far as I can see the building science above suggests that cooling the wall and ensuring poor air tightness BUT ALSO thereby poor ventilation means that warm humid air is likely entering the space behind the insulation giving likely or even certain mould and decay conditions. Are there any reasons for me to be more optimistic about the situation? 
 
Has this happened in North America? Are there any reports or research data on this problem? 
 
Cheers, Paul 

]]> https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/why-did-painters-refuse-to-paint-insulated-houses-in-the-1930s/#comment-6551 Tue, 19 Nov 2013 14:00:59 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=why-did-painters-refuse-to-paint-insulated-houses-in-the-1930s#comment-6551 To this Day … “Water
To this Day … “Water in Buildings” continues to be my favorite Book. 
And Bill Rose …my favorite Author and Building Scientist. 
 
I have been fascinated (make that Obsessed) with Water ever since I opened Bill’s book.

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