Comments on: Guest Post: The Fatal Flaw in Advanced Framing, Part 1

By: Bria veglia

Bria veglia — Fri, 27 Mar 2015 16:18:27 +0000

Interesting topic. If
Interesting topic. If builders did calking plus added ridged foam board with taped seams to the exterior sheathing, would this also help the insulation facts mentioned in the above posting.

By: Bill Burke

Bill Burke — Fri, 29 Aug 2014 20:49:19 +0000

The headline seems out of
The headline seems out of touch with the content. You provide a list of 'common sense' items and then one problematic issue around the top plate. So do all the 'common sense' items and use a double top plate!

By: Tom

Tom — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 06:36:12 +0000

Charles,

Charles,
Not sure is your concerns are climate related or not. I spray closed cell foam under all roof decks and seal attics completely. I do this for structural as well as insulating reasons. I have not run across your cold stud issues and am not sure who "they" are when you refer to installing sheetrock quickly. As sheetrock typically goes up after insulation has been installed, that would be normal. As for convective loops, I have a problem with your assessment. Air movement with porous fiberglass batts certainly can reduce effect R values, but with closed cell foam that does not pass air or moisture, I doubt that air moving across the surface reduces the R any more than air moving across the sheetrock face. And yes, when you take all aspects of draft stopping, waterproofing, and increased structural strength, closed-cell foam could actually be the panacea they claim it to be.

By: Charles

Charles — Thu, 18 Apr 2013 16:12:51 +0000

The problem with relying on
The problem with relying on spray foam for air sealing is that it is simply not the panacea that the manufacturers make it out to be. #1 – spray foam can not/should not be applied on cool studs. It will initially appear to stick and then peel away (so they always try to get the sheetrock up quickly) creating many voids & air leaks. We see this on about 1/2 the homes we look at. #2 – spray foam is often installed with air gaps between the foam & the sheet rock – “You only need a couple of inches because it is soooo good!” they say – but this is simply not true. You need to fill the cavity ENTIRELY to eliminate air gaps that will form convective loops & reduce R values. There are much better systems than stick & spray foam.

By: Corbett Lunsford

Corbett Lunsford — Thu, 18 Apr 2013 01:00:35 +0000
Let's skip all the mumbo
Let's skip all the mumbo-jumbo and blaze into the future of advanced framing: TRIPLE TOP PLATES. Bam. Done.

By: Doug McNeill

Doug McNeill — Wed, 17 Apr 2013 20:03:42 +0000
A good piece and getting
A good piece and getting framers to adapt is a challenge. Raised Heel trusses at 24o.c. compared to conventional framing takes a huge amount of lumber out. for non load bearing interior walls why not use single plates with a longer stud or 2x3 stud walls (yes it requires changes to door frames). Longer length OSB panels eliminate blocking and reduce air leakage big time.

By: T.C. Feick

T.C. Feick — Wed, 17 Apr 2013 19:42:54 +0000
Tom, agreed on the difficulty
Tom, agreed on the difficulty of air sealing, but I have gotten great results using Zip and liquid applied air barriers. If you can get your framer to caulk the top and bottom plate prior to sheathing, and use Zip and tape joints and wrap window openings, air sealing gets a lot easier.

By: David Cummings

David Cummings — Wed, 17 Apr 2013 19:38:02 +0000
So they call it advanced
So they call it advanced framing now?! Ha! We call it "rural" or "ghetto." I’m kidding (no I’m not).

Seriously, if we're talking about building techniques and looking for general consensus, we've come to the wrong place (I don't mean Energy Vanguard). The world of building is too spread out for a one-size-fits-all.

Depending on what you're building and who you're building for will dictate your technique(s). If you're looking to save the world then maybe advanced framing is the first step in the right direction. If you're looking to save some cash on a spec house, well...whatever...more than likely you're cutting corners elsewhere too and are likely building a piece of crap.

I've been milling my own lumber recently so I generally try to "cut corners" (yep) and reduce the amount of framing material I use. I like to use a 4x4 top plate with a half lap for partitions. It means less milling without sacrificing the strength.
If you’re truly worried thermal bridging at the second top plate, use a 2x3 and pack the rest with foam. If you’re that worried about the amount of lumber being used, start looking into the natural building world instead.

I consider myself to be a sort of hybrid builder. I cherry pick from all the different worlds. Conventional, natural, and alternative. It's liberating when you’re not beholden to the rigidity of one possible accreditation or some sort of snazzy certification. It’s like voting your conscience instead of your party line…the results are always custom and unique.

Most of what I see in Advanced Framing resembles good old-fashioned common sense building practices. But let’s be clear…if you want a 36” window, pop in a header and call it day.

I like the drywall clips instead of the triple stud. I’ll have to try that some time when I’m not using lath & clay plaster.

By: Tom

Tom — Wed, 17 Apr 2013 19:05:15 +0000
From a purely structural
From a purely structural perspective, the vertical load path uses the double top plate both for rafter ties and for the 3"x3" staggered nail pattern to "sew" the wall together using the structural OSB or plywood sheathing. If you eliminate that second top plate, you will have to supplement the top connection with extensive metal strapping over the top of the rafters and then downward onto the stud faces. All of this for very little reduction in thermal coupling from plates. The number one challenge (IMHO) is stopping drafts and convection. Housewraps perform miserably with this as they are do not address the very top of the wall and joint between foundations and exterior sidings (brick veneers are much better here as they bridge that connection). Wind blows up under the siding and up into the wall cavities from here. The only way to truly seal a stick frame structure is with spray foam (again IMHO). When you really solve the whole energy problem with stick framing and add in that cost, alternatives become much more competitive. Then add in the benefit of a much stronger structure and the decision becomes much easier. This is all about education and changing an entrenched mindset.

By: T.C. Feick

T.C. Feick — Wed, 17 Apr 2013 18:22:51 +0000

I think some of you are
I think some of you are missing the point; I doubt highly that Greg is advocating a 2×4 wood sheathed wall as an energy efficient structure in and of itself, just the minor energy benefit gained from some of the techniques. Double framed walls are great, but only one is structural, and certainly neither need to be 2×6, unless it is a 3 story structure. SIPs and ICF’s and the such are great, but from a cost standpoint, still not where the market at large can embrace them. These techniques are largely adaptable to any jobsite with a little education and effort. SIPS and ICF’s? not so much.