Comments on: How to Cheat on a Manual J Load Calculation https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/how-to-cheat-on-a-manual-j-load-calculation/ Building science knowledge, HVAC design, & fun Tue, 30 Aug 2022 13:36:53 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.6.2 By: Mike F https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/how-to-cheat-on-a-manual-j-load-calculation/#comment-31604 Tue, 30 Aug 2022 13:36:53 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=7395#comment-31604 Regrettably, consumers are mostly unprepared to recognize problems let alone push for change in an area as complex as HVAC. I see too many examples of people in the HVAC trade who demonstrate insufficient understanding so how is the general consumer to even have a chance? Look over the Internet and see how many “knowledgeable sources” say that you should size sheet metal duct according to a fixed friction rate of .08! My new house HVAC is being installed by a large local contractor having a head engineer making that very statement to me!

Thank you for that useful code reference. It might yield a solution to my situation.

]]>
By: Danny Gough https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/how-to-cheat-on-a-manual-j-load-calculation/#comment-31601 Tue, 30 Aug 2022 11:18:27 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=7395#comment-31601 Mike,
Our code is based on ICC, I think the 2012 version. M1401.1 provides, “Heating and cooling equipment and appliances shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions and the requirements of this code”.

I don’t think it takes much maneuvering to get to the code requiring it. Another example is the requirement for Manual D but no mention of ZR. But wait, there is a reference in D saying zoning systems should be designed in accordance with ZR. So in my “non liar”, I mean “non lawyer” mind, ZR would be required by code via the reference. Same is true for installation of flex duct referring to ADC guidelines which is in lots of flex duct installation instructions.

But at the end of the day, I dont think relying on code enforcement will make any difference. It has to be market driven. Change will occur when the consumer demands better design. Sadly, these days, the consumer doesn’t demand it up front and gives it no thought until a failure that cost them money, money, inconvenience or makes a family member sick. As Emerson said, no one studies geology until the day after the earthquake.

]]>
By: Mike F https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/how-to-cheat-on-a-manual-j-load-calculation/#comment-31583 Tue, 30 Aug 2022 01:07:14 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=7395#comment-31583 Granted the static pressure idea isn’t perfect but it would work for some jurisdictions. Some places actually do require submittal of the friction rate worksheet for forced air systems. The ACCA brochures for code officials point out to ask for this information. That has the potential to raise awareness. I am irritated that it is so difficult to get inspectors, builders and HVAC contractors on board with doing it correctly. As long as the builder can find an HVAC contractor willing to cut corners (read costs) on duct design the problem is perpetuated. The Wrightsoft software does all of the heavy lifting for duct design if you let it. Unfortunately many give it bad input thus the old acronym GIGO (Garbage In Garbage Out). Don’t even get me started on cheap poor duct design like the outdated plenum/trunk tee or bullhead junction being installed on my system with around 100 feet of excess (in)effective length!

One thing you said intrigues me: “… since installation instructions are a mandatory code requirement”. That is an interesting angle. Is there actually something in the code that requires them to follow manufacturer instructions? I don’t recall reading that point anywhere. A reference to that specific thing would be useful. I see multiple instances of not following manufacturer installation instructions in my impending system.

]]>
By: Danny Gough https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/how-to-cheat-on-a-manual-j-load-calculation/#comment-31580 Mon, 29 Aug 2022 23:33:52 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=7395#comment-31580 Mike,
I like your idea about static pressure being used to validate proper design. Most manufacturers’ installation instructions state to measure and record it on their start up sheet. And since installation instructions are a mandatory code requirement, it should not be an unrealistic requirement. But, that would require the system be up and running before final inspection. In my hood, the house doesn’t get permanent power until the final inspection is approved, unless the builder requests and pays for temporary permanent.

]]>
By: Mike F https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/how-to-cheat-on-a-manual-j-load-calculation/#comment-31536 Sun, 28 Aug 2022 15:00:58 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=7395#comment-31536 In reply to Danny Gough.

Danny G,

I quite agree with you regarding lack of HVAC knowledge among many code inspectors. The village in question contracts out for electrical and plumbing inspections but handles the rest on their own. ACCA attempts to provide a solution for this by providing questionnaires for code inspectors to measure compliance but few seem to be aware of this resource. Doubtless the inspectors would cite a lack of time and manpower for real HVAC submittal evaluation.

https://www.acca.org/viewdocument/hvac-brochures-for-code-officials

Regarding duct design, I have a notion for how they could simplify system evaluation: static pressure measurements. Check total external static pressure compared to equipment ratings. Anything substantially outside of equipment design specification means that the installation does not conform to code. The majority of the time, it will be due to undersized ducts. For my system there is absolutely no design allowance for the optional media filter. I requested a friction rate worksheet from the HVAC contractor and their response was that they do not share their design details. They went on to explain how the ducting was properly sized for a .08 friction rate. At that point, it became obvious that they only use their Wrightsoft package to generate a local code required Manual J and duct design drawing that is not reality based and totally ignore the duct design capabilities of the software. One cannot share design details that were never created. As a result, I also hold the HVAC contractor responsible for what, in my opinion, is negligent work in violation of code since they are obviously not following ACCA or any other recognized rigorous design standard. I am unfamiliar with ASHRAE standards but seriously doubt my as yet uncompleted system would meet their standards either.

The builder shares responsibility here for enabling bad practices. I suspect that economics also come into play here. The builder received my protests as my wanting custom installation and refused to recognize my code objections because “they have built houses for years without major HVAC warranty claims” and “it passes code inspection”. Unfortunately, since I am not directly in the trade I am not given standing in the builder’s eye’s. My dad was in the trade and was trained in balancing too. I was exposed to much of Hank R’s knowledge that way so I actually do understand how badly this HVAC job is being executed.

]]>
By: Danny Gough https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/how-to-cheat-on-a-manual-j-load-calculation/#comment-31451 Thu, 25 Aug 2022 12:18:11 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=7395#comment-31451 Mike F,
I have a theory that very few code official have the skill to understand the ACCA process. As some say, those you can do and those you can’t become code inspectors.

Perhaps part of the plan b solution is inverters which modulate frequency from the actual building load imposed on the evaporator coil using temperature or pressure inducer employing refrigerant/temp as a surrogate. That might address the oversizing issue. But the duct design is still an unresolved issue.

]]>
By: Mike F https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/how-to-cheat-on-a-manual-j-load-calculation/#comment-31431 Thu, 25 Aug 2022 00:06:45 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=7395#comment-31431 The saga continues. I have learned the hard way that just because a village requires a Manual J and duct plan, and, purports to have a current building code including requirements for ACCA Manuals J, S, D and T doesn’t mean that they will actually follow and enforce it.
– The submitted Manual J and duct plans are both essentially works of fiction containing numerous obvious errors and thus were clearly not reviewed by the building department.
– The builder won’t accept that it is a code violation because the village inspectors approve the work.
– The HVAC contractor says they are doing exactly what they were contracted for.
– Cheating? This goes well beyond that since everyone involved is looking the other way.
– Ironically, the village actually has local code amendments including a lower than ACCA specified winter outdoor design temperature and yet accepts a Manual J without it.
– The HVAC contractor head engineer claimed that the supply trunk was plenty large enough for two tons of cooling but the installation crew sets a cooling fan speed around 1400 CFM! Pairing that with a return trunk smaller than the supply trunk makes for a pretty noisy system that is strangling the blower.
– After pulling four different Manual J and duct design permit submittals for the same house design, each with multiple obvious errors, I can safely say that it looks like nobody official cares about the problem.

Requiring independent review of HVAC design submittals with post installation inspection seems to be the only way to address this as someone else noted earlier.

Coming up with a plan B to deal with this mess is certainly challenging!

]]>
By: Mike F https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/how-to-cheat-on-a-manual-j-load-calculation/#comment-29479 Sat, 02 Jul 2022 16:35:11 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=7395#comment-29479 “ERRORS”? New build in progress 2004 ft2 ranch with a bad Manual J / duct plan. Builder won’t address it and waiting on HVAC contractor response. Permit MJ8 errors:
-Building orientation incorrect
-Actual equipment airflows not entered
-Cooling equipment performance data at actual design conditions do not reflect Carrier’s expanded performance data at actual airflow
-Static pressure entered as zero
-Wrong winter outdoor design per local code
-Indoor heating/cooling design temps should be 70/75 degrees instead of 72/74
-The indoor winter relative humidity design point should be 30% instead of 35%
-Full basement with 9′ ceilings when its 8′ ceiling and partial crawl space
-Infiltration includes non-existent fireplace, average construction quality instead of something in tight to semi-tight range (blower door test on these houses range 2 to 2.5 ACH50)
-Glazing missing Low-E glass and porch overhang, extra windows, oversized windows in one room, no inside window coverings, no foreground reflectance
-Overstated loads from 60 CFM for ASHRAE ventilation
-Loads heating/cooling 54,952/20,588(4,092 latent)
-My MJ8 says loads 49,093/17,143(2,140 latent)

Specified Carrier 59SC5B 80,000 BTUh with 2 ton A/C when my own MJ8 shows only need 60,000 BTUh with 1.5 ton A/C. In model of this house at part load full sun 82 degree day A/C short cycles 8 minutes with no dehumidification 56.5 RH 55.4 DP. Above full load full sun 97 day runs short cycles 10 minutes with minimal dehumidification 60.3 RH 58.4 DP in low humidity Chicago June weather.

Duct work appears to be sized at 760 CFM design airflow with fixed .07 friction rate instead of actual CFM and calculated friction rate. In model return air is overly restricted with insufficient intakes and strangling the furnace on A/C with return duct 0.6 iwc so TESP estimated 1.1 to 1.5 iwc. A/C fan set about 1600 CFM! Heating CFM set such that high limit trip may occur with overall excessive static pressure.

I reviewed 4 MJ8 reports on 4 different builds of this same house with slightly different variations of most of the same errors which makes no sense. It screams careless at the very least.

Can you say code violations?

]]>
By: RoyC https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/how-to-cheat-on-a-manual-j-load-calculation/#comment-26557 Wed, 04 May 2022 18:17:01 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=7395#comment-26557 This might be a bit off topic, but what does Manual J (or S) say about sizing heat pumps? Size for cooling, take what you get in heating, and make up the rest if necessary with strip heat? Or should you size for heating with no strip heat and live with too much cooling capacity in some cases?

]]>
By: Danny Gough https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/how-to-cheat-on-a-manual-j-load-calculation/#comment-26556 Wed, 04 May 2022 18:16:42 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=7395#comment-26556 The dilemma of teaching code officials how to properly interpret Manual J can be easily resolved. Simply encourage a special interest group to lobby the code writers to adopt NC’s solution. Amend the code.

“For permitting, inspections, certificate of compliance or certificate of occupancy, verification of Calculations for HVAC Systems – ACCA Manual D, ACCA Manual J nor ACCA Manual S calculation submittals and review shall not be required”
Section 312 NC Mechanical Code

Problem Solved!

]]>