Comments on: Could an Energy Code Really Be So Simple? https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/could-an-energy-code-really-be-so-simple/ Building science knowledge, HVAC design, & fun Sun, 23 May 2021 18:50:05 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.6.2 By: WHN https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/could-an-energy-code-really-be-so-simple/#comment-8667 Wed, 22 Jul 2015 04:46:08 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=could-an-energy-code-really-be-so-simple#comment-8667 I haven’t heard Henry
I haven’t heard Henry Giffords name since the 07’LEED report in the ASHREA mag. Here he is making sense in public again….

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By: WHN https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/could-an-energy-code-really-be-so-simple/#comment-8668 Wed, 22 Jul 2015 00:46:08 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=could-an-energy-code-really-be-so-simple#comment-8668 I haven’t heard Henry
I haven’t heard Henry Giffords name since the 07’LEED report in the ASHREA mag. Here he is making sense in public again….

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By: Dave https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/could-an-energy-code-really-be-so-simple/#comment-8665 Mon, 06 Jul 2015 23:25:30 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=could-an-energy-code-really-be-so-simple#comment-8665 While I think this approach
While I think this approach as merit, I forsee four difficulties here:

1) this could only be implemented for new construction buildings as alterations sometimes do not touch the envelope and/or HVAC systems. As time goes on, more projects are renovations rather than new construction meaning only a fraction of buildings would apply.
2) especially on the residential side of things at the moment, the industry is somewhat constrained by the limited number of small capacity heating and cooling systems. I.e. in a well designed apartment, are they going to have to resort to through only wall A/Cs or variable capacity systems?
3) significant support to non-energy savvy designers and builders would have to be implemented. What does a building look like that meets these standards? What has to be done to achieve this? And in so doing, you basically end up with the energy code.
4) through this method, a failure of energy efficiency results in a failure of human comfort after the Certificate of Occupancy has already been granted. The primary fix to a now existing building is to add greater capacity system so people are comfortable.

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By: Tapani Talo https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/could-an-energy-code-really-be-so-simple/#comment-8661 Mon, 06 Jul 2015 22:02:31 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=could-an-energy-code-really-be-so-simple#comment-8661 In reply to David Butler.

I am afraid that in both
I am afraid that in both counts we are against the grain. HVAC people have no clue what efficiency, and sizing is about, and they earn more with larger, so no incentive.
As to home sizes, builders and their subs go for the BIG, clients like BIg as it is about their status..
Until we have energy tax (allocated by how far from passive one goes) on houses and cars (anything less than 100 miles per gallon or eq) , nothing will change.

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By: Ryan Shanahan https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/could-an-energy-code-really-be-so-simple/#comment-8663 Mon, 06 Jul 2015 21:34:35 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=could-an-energy-code-really-be-so-simple#comment-8663 I like the simplicity of it
I like the simplicity of it but when it comes to a residential application I think it will unfairly reward larger homes. In the Earth Advantage home certification program we created a target energy consumption metric per number of bedrooms per climate in an attempt to drive overall consumption down and take home size seriously. Yes, this requires energy modeling but so does the suggested perfect system. At least I hope HVAC contractors aren’t using the old rules of thumb to determine the heating and cooling system inputs!

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By: Dave https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/could-an-energy-code-really-be-so-simple/#comment-8666 Mon, 06 Jul 2015 19:25:30 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=could-an-energy-code-really-be-so-simple#comment-8666 While I think this approach
While I think this approach as merit, I forsee four difficulties here:

1) this could only be implemented for new construction buildings as alterations sometimes do not touch the envelope and/or HVAC systems. As time goes on, more projects are renovations rather than new construction meaning only a fraction of buildings would apply.
2) especially on the residential side of things at the moment, the industry is somewhat constrained by the limited number of small capacity heating and cooling systems. I.e. in a well designed apartment, are they going to have to resort to through only wall A/Cs or variable capacity systems?
3) significant support to non-energy savvy designers and builders would have to be implemented. What does a building look like that meets these standards? What has to be done to achieve this? And in so doing, you basically end up with the energy code.
4) through this method, a failure of energy efficiency results in a failure of human comfort after the Certificate of Occupancy has already been granted. The primary fix to a now existing building is to add greater capacity system so people are comfortable.

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By: Tapani Talo https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/could-an-energy-code-really-be-so-simple/#comment-8662 Mon, 06 Jul 2015 18:02:31 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=could-an-energy-code-really-be-so-simple#comment-8662 I am afraid that in both
I am afraid that in both counts we are against the grain. HVAC people have no clue what efficiency, and sizing is about, and they earn more with larger, so no incentive.
As to home sizes, builders and their subs go for the BIG, clients like BIg as it is about their status..
Until we have energy tax (allocated by how far from passive one goes) on houses and cars (anything less than 100 miles per gallon or eq) , nothing will change.

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By: Ryan Shanahan https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/could-an-energy-code-really-be-so-simple/#comment-8664 Mon, 06 Jul 2015 17:34:35 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=could-an-energy-code-really-be-so-simple#comment-8664 I like the simplicity of it
I like the simplicity of it but when it comes to a residential application I think it will unfairly reward larger homes. In the Earth Advantage home certification program we created a target energy consumption metric per number of bedrooms per climate in an attempt to drive overall consumption down and take home size seriously. Yes, this requires energy modeling but so does the suggested perfect system. At least I hope HVAC contractors aren’t using the old rules of thumb to determine the heating and cooling system inputs!

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By: David Butler https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/could-an-energy-code-really-be-so-simple/#comment-8659 Sat, 04 Jul 2015 08:12:28 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=could-an-energy-code-really-be-so-simple#comment-8659 One advantage of this
One advantage of this approach is the simplicity of making future improvements to the code. But I think the most important advantage is rather subtle… it would give general contractors a huge incentive to implement a robust QA regimen to avoid the comfort complaints and bad rep that would surely follow if as-built envelope falls short of modeled specs.

On the other hand, GC's might find it easier to pad themselves by going beyond the minimum specs indicated by the model (a good thing), but they would have no incentive to further downsize the equipment. In other words, there would be a perverse incentive ratchet up the envelope specs a bit and then install the largest hvac allowed by code.

Hmm…

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By: David Butler https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/could-an-energy-code-really-be-so-simple/#comment-8660 Sat, 04 Jul 2015 04:12:28 +0000 http://energyvanguard.flywheelsites.com/?blog_post=could-an-energy-code-really-be-so-simple#comment-8660 One advantage of this
One advantage of this approach is the simplicity of making future improvements to the code. But I think the most important advantage is rather subtle… it would give general contractors a huge incentive to implement a robust QA regimen to avoid the comfort complaints and bad rep that would surely follow if as-built envelope falls short of modeled specs.

On the other hand, GC's might find it easier to pad themselves by going beyond the minimum specs indicated by the model (a good thing), but they would have no incentive to further downsize the equipment. In other words, there would be a perverse incentive ratchet up the envelope specs a bit and then install the largest hvac allowed by code.

Hmm…

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