Comments on: How to Ventilate a Home With Impunity https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/how-to-ventilate-a-home-with-impunity/ Building science knowledge, HVAC design, & fun Tue, 26 Apr 2022 18:21:57 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.6.2 By: David Butler https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/how-to-ventilate-a-home-with-impunity/#comment-26220 Tue, 26 Apr 2022 18:21:57 +0000 https://energyvanguard.com/?p=5280#comment-26220 In reply to Niko.

@Niko, as you point out, ERV’s add moisture to the house, although not nearly as much as other ventilation methods. However, ERV’s do a poor job of removing shower moisture and should never be used for that purpose. Since steam from a hot shower has a higher dew point than outside air, the ERV will dutifully recycle a high percentage of shower moisture to the rest of the house, bedrooms in your case.

It’s OK to exhaust the ERV from the bathrooms as long as you use a conventional bath fan while showering. If you want to recover heat from shower exhaust, you’d need an HRV, but I can’t imagine how that would ever be cost effective.

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By: Niko https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/how-to-ventilate-a-home-with-impunity/#comment-26061 Sat, 23 Apr 2022 19:06:27 +0000 https://energyvanguard.com/?p=5280#comment-26061 I’m in Florida and I am looking to remodel my 1980 house. I am redesigning the entire HVAC system with focus on ventilation. My plan currently is as follows.

1) Zehnder ERV for balanced ventilation (bath exhaust, bedroom supply)
2) Whole house dehumidifier with dedicated return and supply ducting
3) Variable speed Trane AC

The reason for this combination: I am looking for balanced ventilation for bathrooms exhaust to take moisture out of the house. Additionally I want to supply fresh air to the bedrooms to keep the CO2 levels and VOC low. I realize the ERV will in general add moisture to the house. Therefore I am installing a whole house dehumidifier. I looked into the CERV ventilating heat pump option but for some reason I am not sold on that particular product. So I am hoping my setup will allow me to achieve balanced ventilation and humidity control in a hot humid climate. A ventilating dehumidifier won’t allow me to be balanced so ill either end up with too much pressure (dehumidifier on) or too low pressure (bathroom fans on) in the house.

I’d love comments or advice on this planed setup.

Thank you

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By: framistat https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/how-to-ventilate-a-home-with-impunity/#comment-16190 Tue, 03 Aug 2021 14:28:42 +0000 https://energyvanguard.com/?p=5280#comment-16190 Don’t know what’s going on with UltraAire 70H units, but in three of them in a row, the compressor failed and they were nearly empty of refrigerant. Yet another warranty replacement unit is still sitting in its box. The currently installed unit is providing ventilation only, a standalone dehumidifier in the basement is doing its thing with no issues. Considered a Panasonic Intelli-Balance but the MERV filters are nowhere to be had. Anyone have a source?

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By: Matthew K https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/how-to-ventilate-a-home-with-impunity/#comment-15192 Wed, 09 Jun 2021 17:25:53 +0000 https://energyvanguard.com/?p=5280#comment-15192 In reply to Genry Garcia.

Genry, I wish I had a before my encapsulation blower door measurement when I encapsulated 5 years ago. But as part of the sizing process for my dehu installation 2 months ago, my contractor did a blower door test. Results: Depressurize 5.43 ACH 50 Pressurize 5.66 ACH 50. My house was built in 1993, so from what my contractor told me, I’d fail current building code standards. But based on houses built during that era, I’m not in terrible shape.

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By: Genry Garcia https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/how-to-ventilate-a-home-with-impunity/#comment-15189 Wed, 09 Jun 2021 13:20:07 +0000 https://energyvanguard.com/?p=5280#comment-15189 Matthew – Interesting. How tight is your home? You mentioned the crawl had been encapsulated, but was the envelope tested for leakage?

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By: J.M. https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/how-to-ventilate-a-home-with-impunity/#comment-14582 Thu, 13 May 2021 21:04:14 +0000 https://energyvanguard.com/?p=5280#comment-14582 Dr. Bailes,

It’s interesting that this article was published just one day after I finally got my ventilation system installed! It’s the supply-only type. And its working great at it’s intended purpose: reducing CO2. VOCs are down too, which is nice.

Last fall, after installing IAQ sensors (AirThings brand), I came the conclusion that my 2012 built house was too tight and spent the fall, winter and spring pondering the best solution for my situation.

ERVs look enticing, but since I don’t have a basement, that would mean an attic installation and unfortunately the attic is mostly occupied by the resident HVAC ductzilla.

Ventilating dehumidifiers looked good until I noticed that unit I was quoted would not meet the ASHRAE recommended ventilation rate for the square footage it would be dehumidifing. Furthermore, the unit in question was nearly the size of a Fiat and the models with enough ventilation CFMs were even bigger.

So I opted for the simple supply only ventilation. I realize its low on the totem pole of solutions, but it was the only practical option. But regarding your (and Terry’s) concerns:

Humidity: supposedly the fan will shut itself off if it detects too much humidity. However, should it do that, then I’ll just do what I did prior to installing it: open the windows.

Energy: the max draw is 0.7A, not much really. And I don’t care anyways: I’ll gladly pay more money in order to keep my daughter from being subjected to >1100ppm CO2 throughout the night.

Pollution: I had the unit installed with a wall control that will allow me to turn it off should the neighbors be grilling, letting off fireworks, or should our subdivision be attacked with chemical weapons. Otherwise, the typical pollutants in the outside air can’t be much worse than the VOCs indoors. Additionally, the fan accepts filters up to MERV 11 which I’ll installing shortly. Plus the HVAC has its own MERV 8 Media filter, so I think we’ll be ok.

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By: Matthew K https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/how-to-ventilate-a-home-with-impunity/#comment-14574 Thu, 13 May 2021 13:17:50 +0000 https://energyvanguard.com/?p=5280#comment-14574 This is where I’m with Terry. I’m on my own journey with IAQ and the lack of industry knowledge is absolutely shocking. I’m 3 weeks into an install of a dedicated ventilating dehumidifier and it took me 9 months to find a contractor who understood how to do it right. There seems to be more than a bit written up on best practices, but none of that filters down to the general HVAC community.

For me, my journey continues. My humidity is under control, but I’m genuinely puzzled why my VOCs spike on certain days (measured by a FooBot). I can’t yet find any correlation between weather/temp/humidity. And ventilation — not sure yet. My crawls space is encapsulated, but I’m sure I still have plenty of stack effect going on.

My point in all of this is like Terry, I’d like to attack the problem once and for all, but the industry needs to get out of the mid 90s. I could trying and keep shooting in the dark to find the right expert to tell me what is going on, but it seems like the standard for the “experts” is still pretty low.

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By: Albert Rooks https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/how-to-ventilate-a-home-with-impunity/#comment-14562 Wed, 12 May 2021 14:38:22 +0000 https://energyvanguard.com/?p=5280#comment-14562 Terry,
Looks like you have pretty low expectations. Some of what you say is true in the most basic applications. The Atlantic coast region benefits with a higher ethlapy recovery rate. This is so you can get the flow coming in but leave more moisture outside. You’re probably used to the units with 50% enthalpy recovery. I agree, there’s a significant amount of moisture traveling with that air. Get up to the higher numbers.

Also, these higher performing units like you see here don’t perform well unless they are operating in the right flow range and in balance. That means not connecting to HVAC air handlers. You’re right its impossible to balance. The unit in the picture is in my home and its balanced. It self balances and I can see the flow and fan speed on my iPhone. Pretty easy. Without balanced flow you can’t get heat or enthalpy recovery. Not even the modest 50% – let alone 68% – 80%.

And yes, do not use paper cores. Good units don’t offer paper cores because they are good units.

Lastly, the picture in this article has an extra steel box on the supply. It has a MERV 15 filter in it. Thats in addition to the MERV 13 pre-filter that’s already in the unit. I have the supply air monitored. The current status in the home for US EPA PM2.5 = 2. Getting down to the really small stuff – its showing Particles <0.3um = 167. Those are pretty low numbers.

So, yes you can have airflow with less moisture, you can balance or let the unit self balance, not get mold on your core, and put some pretty strong filtration in. You just can't do by using inexpensive low performance equipment connected to an HVAC system. Its that old "you get what you design for" thing.

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By: Terry Sopher Sr https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/how-to-ventilate-a-home-with-impunity/#comment-14554 Wed, 12 May 2021 00:35:55 +0000 https://energyvanguard.com/?p=5280#comment-14554 I have learned much from you & admire & respect your expertise. I have several major comments based on my experience in the mid-Atlantic region. I’d appreciate your response and explaining where I am wrong. (1) ERVs create numerous indoor air quality problems in humid climates: (a) they remove insignificant amounts of moisture & unless their incoming air is ducted directly into a large capacity dehumidifier, ventilating during the humid months will increase indoor moisture levels far above 50%; (b) ERV paper cores will develop mold ; (c) “balancing” airflows as a practical matter is virtually impossible with modern variable speed HVAC air handlers & separate, unmatched fan speeds in the ERV & a dehumidifier. (2) Ventilation with outdoor air can help dilute indoor air CHEMICAL contaminants, but does not eliminate them, & outdoor air is often contaminated with hazardous chemicals & can make indoor air worse. MERV 13 or even higher particulate filtration on ventilation equipment does NOTHING to ELIMINATE health-hazardous CHEMICALs [VOCs & non-VOC] in indoor & outdoor air. A complex mix of toxic & health-hazardous chemicals are contained in & emitted by many building materials & furnishings & occupant activities–& in ‘tight’ buildings, those emissions get concentrated. Diluting them is certainly better than not diluting them, but that only reduces health hazards, not eliminates them. Outdoor air is increasingly contaminated with a complex mix of toxic or health hazardous chemical constituents generated locally [gas powered lawn eqpmt; pesticides; vehicle exhausts; neighbor’s emission of toxic ‘scented’ laundry products from dryer vents; etc] and regionally [rural farming chemicals; urban/suburban air pollutants; climate ‘wild’ fire smoke & toxic airborne chemicals]. Fact: climate change is bringing not only more pandemics but significant increase of air pollutants. So I see several major & serious deficiencies: (1) ‘energy efficient’ ‘tight’ buildings create MORE indoor air health risks with increasing use of building ‘envelope’ materials that raise significant health /IAQ issues; (2) FILTRATION of CHEMICALS in indoor & outdoor air is NOT receiving priority attention in development of ventilation strategies & technology; (3) virtually NO significant effort is expended to prevent TOXIC & health-hazardous materials from being incorporated into building materials & furnishings, ‘green’ or ‘recycled’ materials. Builders & consumers are usually left with only a choice between ‘more toxic’ & ‘less toxic’ materials.

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