Comments on: Measuring the Efficiency of a Room Dehumidifier https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/measuring-the-efficiency-of-a-room-dehumidifier/ Building science knowledge, HVAC design, & fun Mon, 01 Nov 2021 12:15:48 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.6.2 By: David Butler https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/measuring-the-efficiency-of-a-room-dehumidifier/#comment-16876 Tue, 14 Sep 2021 19:27:40 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=6453#comment-16876 In reply to Harvey Sachs.

@Harvey, great comment! Reminded me of the age-old problem of how often efficiency ratings are misused to extrapolate annual consumption for ROI or lifecycle cost analyses (mostly an issue with compression based products). Remember those “cooling hour” contour maps? Combine that with A/C capacity and SEER rating, and voila! Instant annual A/C energy consumption! HSPF (for heat pumps) is even worse due to very-difficult-to-model supplemental heat factor.

For the most part, federal efficiency ratings are useful for their intended purpose: product comparisons. But there’s far too much variation in operating conditions for a given home to use these ratings as the basis for energy modeling.

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By: Harvey Sachs https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/measuring-the-efficiency-of-a-room-dehumidifier/#comment-16865 Tue, 14 Sep 2021 15:59:10 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=6453#comment-16865 Good experiments and good comments, but one factor was left out: the role of federal efficiency standards. By law, the label efficiency ratings must be based on the federal tests for minimum legal efficiency. These tests reflect needs for simplicity (cost of testing), accuracy, and precision. They often are developed from industry consensus standards. If it is easier to get faster test cycle time with good enough accuracy and precision at extreme conditions (high temp and humidity), that’s likely to be the test basis, and moderate temp/humidity field conditions might be lower, systematically. Just like EPA MPG ratings used to be. The environmental advocates like ACEEE and NRDC have worked with the Energy Department and industry to get better rating methods for many products; it’s hard work.

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By: David Butler https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/measuring-the-efficiency-of-a-room-dehumidifier/#comment-16826 Sun, 12 Sep 2021 05:01:31 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=6453#comment-16826 In reply to Ty Newell.

@Ty Newell wrote:
> Dehumidification efficiency and capacity both increase significantly (2 to 3 times) as humidity increases…. (these) efficiency and capacity performance increases can be achieved by dehumidifying outdoor air before it mixes with indoor air.

Great point. Whenever possible through design, you always want to maximize your deltas. Dedicated outside air systems (DOAS) in commercial buildings follow this approach. For the same reason, thermal storage is used strategically in heating (and cooling) hydronics to maximize the delta-T and thus increase both capacity and efficiency of the source equipment.

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By: David Butler https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/measuring-the-efficiency-of-a-room-dehumidifier/#comment-16825 Sun, 12 Sep 2021 04:46:39 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=6453#comment-16825 In reply to Curt.

@Curt wrote:
> do the math to be sure that much capacity is really needed

How does one do that? Latent loads related to occupancy can be roughly estimated based on ASHRAE guidelines but it seems that latent loads from infiltration are too highly variable and depend more on partial vapor pressure differentials than the infiltration rate itself. And I’ve never even attempted to estimate latent loads from ground moisture, concrete curing, ineffective spot exhaust, etc…

Trial-and-error seems to be the only way to go at this, but if you’ve developed even a rough estimation method through your considerable experience with dehumidifiers, I’m all ears.

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By: Curt https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/measuring-the-efficiency-of-a-room-dehumidifier/#comment-16804 Fri, 10 Sep 2021 21:12:23 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=6453#comment-16804 I’m partial to the small 22 pint Danby portable dehumidifiers. They are small, quiet and relatively efficient. I particularly like the fact that their discharge air leaves with enough velocity to circulate air in the room – many portables don’t feature that.

I have one in a 800 SF basement room in Massachusetts, another in a small barn in north Florida, and I’m planning another for a garden shed.

It is tempting to oversize dehumidifiers, but don’t succumb – before buying unis in the 40-70+ pint range, do the math to be sure that much capacity is really needed.

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By: Ty Newell https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/measuring-the-efficiency-of-a-room-dehumidifier/#comment-16795 Fri, 10 Sep 2021 03:55:37 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=6453#comment-16795 Our recent newsletter (see buildequinox.com) has experimental data showing trends in dehumidification efficiency (liters per kWh) and capacity (liters per hour) as humidity changes. Dehumidification efficiency and capacity both increase significantly (2 to 3 times) as humidity increases. The units we tested (Aprilaire E070 and Mitsubishi 1 ton ducted Hyper Heat) both increase in similar manners. We found both units to perform as listed by manufacturer specifications. When dehumidifier and air conditioning units are integrated together, as described in the article, additional efficiency and capacity performance increases can be achieved by dehumidifying outdoor air before it mixes with indoor air.

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By: Bill Nickerson https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/measuring-the-efficiency-of-a-room-dehumidifier/#comment-16770 Wed, 08 Sep 2021 11:32:25 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=6453#comment-16770 Another good article. Question: How do you verify that your ambient conditions are at a constant? And if not how do you quantify efficacy if conditions change? By the way, your contractor wanted $20K to replace 2 split systems-no duct work. I guess he priced it per neighborhood landscaping……

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By: Harrison D https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/measuring-the-efficiency-of-a-room-dehumidifier/#comment-16766 Wed, 08 Sep 2021 04:05:18 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=6453#comment-16766 Two follow-up questions:
1. You mentioned “I don’t need to keep the basement at 50% relative humidity.” What, then, was your RH target, especially since the EPA folks say “(RH) should be kept below 60 percent — ideally between 30 percent and 50 percent? (See https://www.epa.gov/mold/mold-course-chapter-2#Chapter2Lesson6, for example).
2. Good point about not trusting the dehumidifier’s setting, but isn’t there another reason for buying a separate, trust-worthy hygrometer? My new SF “advanced 90” (OK, I admit I clicked on your link), senses RH in its immediate area, which is 3-5% drier than other parts of my still leaky but encapsulated crawlspace/basement. Gotta have a separate meter to understand what the whole space needs. Or is that 3-5% difference not worth worrying about?

Looking forward to your book.
Good luck writing!

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By: Sam Wright https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/measuring-the-efficiency-of-a-room-dehumidifier/#comment-16760 Tue, 07 Sep 2021 22:06:35 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=6453#comment-16760 In reply to Andrew K..

I would guess that the fan speed would be dependent on the size of the room. Say you wanted to move the dehumidifier around. So you get a dehumidifier that can cover the biggest area. And in that space, you have the fan on “high.” But you take the same dehumidifier and put it in a smaller room, and you might prevent (?) short-cycling by turning the fan down to medium or low, in order to get more run time with less interruptions, so that it can operate more efficiently. I don’t know. Not an expert.

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By: Ken https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/measuring-the-efficiency-of-a-room-dehumidifier/#comment-16759 Tue, 07 Sep 2021 20:57:32 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=6453#comment-16759 In reply to Andrew K..

I’m no expert, and I’m sure one of the helpful brainiacs here will correct me if I’m wrong. But I set mine on low for two reasons. First, it is quieter. Second, and more importantly, I believe it is more efficient for my specific circumstances. My room dehumidifier is placed in front of my home’s central return closet. This means that the air handler pulls air around the dehumidifier whenever the air handler is running, allowing fresh air to enter the dehumidifier. The fan on low expels the newly dehumidified air and mixes it into the room (and into the central return closet). The low fan speed is more efficient because it allows for more condensation to occur on the coils and drip into the bucket rather than being evaporated by higher air speed moving across the coils.

The disadvantage of using the low speed is that it results in less mixing of the dehumidified air. In my situation this is not a concern because the air handler is doing the mixing for me. If you need the expelled air to be mixed with the room air well, then it might be more efficient to run the fan on high.

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