Comments on: Condensation on Storm Windows: A Lesson in Condensing Surfaces https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/condensation-on-storm-windows-a-lesson-in-condensing-surfaces/ Building science knowledge, HVAC design, & fun Wed, 11 Aug 2021 17:42:37 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.6.2 By: RoyC https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/condensation-on-storm-windows-a-lesson-in-condensing-surfaces/#comment-16309 Wed, 11 Aug 2021 17:42:37 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=6281#comment-16309 In reply to Allison Bailes.

I just went back to this website today, and it shows 84 F dewpoint again in Clarion while the surrounding weather stations show 73 – 79 F dewpoints. I believe the 73 F dewpoints, but I am not sure about the 79 F dewpoint either. My only point is that one should be careful when using other people’s data. I doubt that the guy at the airport in Clarion (population 2800) calibrates his sensors too often. Since this station is also showing an 84 F dry-bulb temperature (100% RH), I wouldn’t be surprised if he is using a wet-bulb thermometer for humidity and hasn’t wetted his wick in quite a while.

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By: Allison Bailes https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/condensation-on-storm-windows-a-lesson-in-condensing-surfaces/#comment-16216 Wed, 04 Aug 2021 17:04:58 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=6281#comment-16216 In reply to RoyC.

It’s good to be skeptical, Roy. I just went to see if they said anything about where the data come from and noticed that they give the weather station for each entry when you go to the state level. I didn’t look at the state level last week, but the area where that 84° F dew point was showing seems like it might have been Clarion, with weather station KCAV.

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By: RoyC https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/condensation-on-storm-windows-a-lesson-in-condensing-surfaces/#comment-16211 Wed, 04 Aug 2021 15:42:30 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=6281#comment-16211 In reply to Allison Bailes.

I am still skeptical of that dewpoint map website. I think some of their sensors need calibration. I am guessing that this data is coming from internet-connected home weather stations.

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By: Daphne Cothren https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/condensation-on-storm-windows-a-lesson-in-condensing-surfaces/#comment-16199 Tue, 03 Aug 2021 20:06:18 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=6281#comment-16199 In reply to Allison Bailes.

An interesting discussion in your article! The diurnal swings aren’t (or shouldn’t be) surprising, but the degree of stratification within such a short space surprised me. However, as the comments suggest, a great deal of interplay is likely with the roof above. Are you aware of (yes, I will have to pull out my own Google-fu) any studies showing humidity strata in the open air?
Can’t say I really know where I’m going with this topic, really just reaching for a better grasp on understanding conditions before hoping to manipulate them.
Cheers

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By: Allison Bailes https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/condensation-on-storm-windows-a-lesson-in-condensing-surfaces/#comment-16189 Tue, 03 Aug 2021 14:27:44 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=6281#comment-16189 In reply to Matt Hoots.

Matt, I’ll be replacing mine, but I’ve got a number of things to do first. All the improvements I have planned are one reason I undersized my mini-split heat pumps. It’ll sure be nice to get to the windows, though.

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By: Allison Bailes https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/condensation-on-storm-windows-a-lesson-in-condensing-surfaces/#comment-16188 Tue, 03 Aug 2021 14:25:11 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=6281#comment-16188 In reply to Daphne Cothren.

Daphne, yes, humidity does stratify. I’ve measure significant differences in relative humidity and dew point from the floor to the ridge in encapsulated attics (link below). The water molecule is lighter than nitrogen and oxygen molecules, but I think there’s more to it than that.

Humidity in a Spray Foam Attic

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By: Allison Bailes https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/condensation-on-storm-windows-a-lesson-in-condensing-surfaces/#comment-16187 Tue, 03 Aug 2021 14:21:25 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=6281#comment-16187 In reply to RoyC.

Roy, if you click on the last link in the Related Articles section, you’ll see that the record dew point for the US is 91° F. That was Melbourne, Florida, not a surprise. Also not a surprise is that New Orleans is tied for second at 90° F. And so is Appleton, Wisconsin. The upper Midwest can get some nasty humidity sometimes.

When I looked at the map, most of Iowas was in the 70s Fahrenheit, but there was one place in north central Iowa that stuck out at 84° F. You must have been in one of the other parts of the state or maybe at a time when it was less humid.

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By: Matt Hoots https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/condensation-on-storm-windows-a-lesson-in-condensing-surfaces/#comment-16155 Sun, 01 Aug 2021 23:10:26 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=6281#comment-16155 I have the same issues with the windows that I have not replaced yet in my house. The newer windows are Marvin Elevate which have a fiberglass core that makes for a nice thermal break.

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By: Daphne Cothren https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/condensation-on-storm-windows-a-lesson-in-condensing-surfaces/#comment-16121 Fri, 30 Jul 2021 23:06:47 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=6281#comment-16121 Ugh, that makes me squirm to get away just in sympathy.
First thought is flee underground, but likely you’ve got heavy clay there and it’s likely fairly wet soil…so no good.
I just read an article on experimental housing raised on stilts, only ten feet or so was adequate, in hot humid places to escape mosquitoes. While that was about insects, it does lead one to wonder about whether there is any substantially useful stratification of humidity, i.e. is there any appreciable difference of condensation on windows on the upper floors?

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By: RoyC https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/condensation-on-storm-windows-a-lesson-in-condensing-surfaces/#comment-16114 Fri, 30 Jul 2021 17:18:35 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=6281#comment-16114 Allison, how many grains per square inch would you estimate are on that window?
Are you sure that you saw an 84 F dewpoint in Iowa on that map? I was there last week and it was humid, but 84 F dewpoint is a crazy high number that I have never seen in the U.S. before.

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