Comments on: Can Duct Sealing Lead to Condensation? https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/can-duct-sealing-lead-to-condensation/ Building science knowledge, HVAC design, & fun Wed, 26 Apr 2023 12:59:39 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.6.2 By: Sheryl https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/can-duct-sealing-lead-to-condensation/#comment-33329 Wed, 26 Apr 2023 12:59:39 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=7427#comment-33329 I sealed large 1/2″ gaps in return ducts. No issues noted for awhile. No sign of condensation in basement. Humidity in my place is low- 31% to 40%. Now the 69-year-old oak floorboards are darkening around the edges of the pieces above the return air ducts. Excellent air flow tested by putting an 8.5 X 11 inch paper on the vent; paper stays there when fan on.

Did I create condensation inside the return air ducts?

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By: MattM https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/can-duct-sealing-lead-to-condensation/#comment-27717 Wed, 25 May 2022 11:35:57 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=7427#comment-27717 In reply to Dustin Cole.

You cannot sweat unless you have the wrong air mix. Dustin in probably correct, its probably their laundry routine creating super humidity in their utility space. The average homeowner creates their own issues that no amount of engineerimg will solve, then they blame anyone and everyone else.

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By: Robin Boyd https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/can-duct-sealing-lead-to-condensation/#comment-27438 Thu, 19 May 2022 04:52:42 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=7427#comment-27438 In reply to Michael Archer.

I’ve seen this many times in the humid, not so much a heat load area of the Baltimore area of Maryland to the east and Eastern PA when basement ducting is sealed and insulated before finishing the basement. Without having the air space in the soffits and joist spacings around the duct be able to cool those spaces, humid air leaks into those spaces from outside walls and sweats around any areas of the ducting that couldn’t easily be insulated or did not have a good vapor barrier. Water stains on soffits and around vents are common.

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By: Dustin Cole https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/can-duct-sealing-lead-to-condensation/#comment-27420 Thu, 19 May 2022 01:25:30 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=7427#comment-27420 In my opinion it could be as a result from several different things and a deeper dive is likely needed.
If run times are significantly longer now with the smaller equipment than before “which I assume they are” it could be that the building leakage has always been an issue but with the longer off cycles there was a greater drying potential with the larger equipment being off more.
Obviously with less duct leakage the reduced exfiltration could be playing a huge role in things.
Did you perform any Zonal Pressure diagnostics in the interstitial spaces? This could answer the question on if building envelope leakage is playing a role in the conductsation.
Did the problem reduce / or go away once ceiling was opened?
How is the airflow in the ducts?
With the system reduction was it enough to drop velocities to the mythical too low range?
Was the home conditions cross referenced to the interstitial space where the ducts live?
Is the home averaging positive or negative WRT Outside under normal conditions?
Are bathrooms vented properly, Perhaps those ducts are leaking into the spaces with the cuts and are playing a role here as well.
SOOOOO many maybes…..BUT it’s likely exactly what you described. Simply less duct leakage, same infiltration/less exfiltration, longer run tines=higher chance of conductsation.

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By: Aaron https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/can-duct-sealing-lead-to-condensation/#comment-27404 Wed, 18 May 2022 19:58:49 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=7427#comment-27404 I’m no HVAC technician, but a simple homeowner. Couldn’t the most simple answer have nothing to do with pressures but simply temperature in the space? I mean, if the chase was previously cold bc cold air conditioned air leaked out into that surrounding space, cold air on a cold surface wouldn’t create condensation. When you “plugged” the leaking cold air supply, the space was no longer air conditioned ‘properly’ and became humid. Thus, the temperature rose in that space to the degree of was lacking AC there resulting in humid air on cold ducts. (ie sweating occurs).

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By: Michael Archer https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/can-duct-sealing-lead-to-condensation/#comment-27374 Wed, 18 May 2022 05:38:53 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=7427#comment-27374 All my ducts run through my unfinished basement. I have seen condensation drip off of some ducts onto the basement floor. All the ducts are sealed. I figure that I need to insulate wrap those supply ducts to stop this from happening.

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By: Genry Garcia https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/can-duct-sealing-lead-to-condensation/#comment-27370 Wed, 18 May 2022 03:42:59 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=7427#comment-27370 Certainly possible. But this assumes the premise that only leakage from the supply side was keeping the interstitial space pressurized. How about the return side?

Is it possible that before there was predominantly supply side air leakage and now after the aeroseal there predominant return side leakage? Same effect I suppose. Can the ducts be re-tested but separating the return from the supply perhaps? This would serve a huge purpose from a diagnostics stand point.

At first my mind went to the same place as some of the other comments with the on demand dehumidification airflow reduction that would make the supply air colder. But if the system was replaced by an arguably undersized system then that means that the humidity, at least on the inside of the drywall is likely under control. This leaves us with the longer on cycles as the possible culprit for the duct surface temperature.

Either way, this one reminded me about Hotel Mold from Lstiburek, where you had positively pressurized living space, but negative walls. Here is the link. Good luck, keep us posted please.

https://www.buildingscience.com/documents/building-science-insights/bsi-130-hotel-mold?utm_source=Building+Science+Corporation+List&utm_campaign=ef0f503ba1-BSC+Newsletter+Issue+%23102_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_194890bc8c-ef0f503ba1-121072954

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By: David Butler https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/can-duct-sealing-lead-to-condensation/#comment-27346 Tue, 17 May 2022 17:27:13 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=7427#comment-27346 Based on limited information provided, your proposed diagnosis seems reasonable. If leakage evidence tends to be in close proximity of exterior walls, that would be a smokin’ gun.

I’ve seen a number of articles over the years about how duct sealing can cause problems to the extent that it impacts airflow. When working on BPI-3300, I argued that duct sealing should always be accompanied by airflow testing to ensure adequate airflow in cooling mode. Your diagnosis in this case suggests that’s not enough to guarantee “no harm” from duct sealing. Supply duct leakage may have been the only thing preventing interstitial infiltration at the band joist (rim bands are notorious for air leakage).

Another possibility is that the HVAC contractor set the fan to “Continuous” or advised the owner to do so. We know that can raise indoor humidity.

Regardless of the cause, buildings have many complex interactions and while it’s certainly possible to avoid duct condensation with proper design and installation practice, the surest defense is to minimally insulate the ducts in a way that also provides a vapor barrier. I think it’s unfortunate that the IRC/IMC doesn’t require this in the “A” and “C” climate zones.

As an aside… A senior code official with the North Carolina Dept of Insurance (code regulatory authority) once told me that while building codes don’t require interior ducts to be insulated (they should), contractors are nonetheless liable for any damage caused if the ducts sweat. I’m curious how other states address this issue, if at all. Do any jurisdictions require insulated interior ducts?

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By: Curt Kinder https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/can-duct-sealing-lead-to-condensation/#comment-27343 Tue, 17 May 2022 15:55:02 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=7427#comment-27343 In terms of likely probability, I like your hypothesis in re the interstitial space made negative by sealing the ducts. A classic case of an unintended consequence. Maybe a blower door test is in order to focus on that possibility.

I would not, however, rule out the new HVAC without at least a quick gander at the system’s indoor temperature split – return vs supply temperature. Tech should check static pressure, as well. If the system has a variable speed air handler check for active dehumidification configuration – this can dial back air flow when humidity is higher than setpoint – increases run time and wrings more moisture out of the air, but may also result in duct condensation.

Lastly, do not neglect cooling setpoints – these sometimes take some sleuthing to suss out since occupants aren’t always truthful or may be unaware of the habits of others in the home – teens etc with their own thermostat / system / zone setting it inappropriately. I advise asking “The Question” in two parts: “What (temperature) do you normally set the system at?” and then, crucially “…any lower at night?”. Life / health / household changes sometimes lead to reduced setpoints. In my area in and around Jax, FL, we try to steer clear of anyone setting any system below 72*F. Those that set below that are best served by one of our competitors.

All of these are situations I have encountered in the course of duct sweat investigations

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By: Jason https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/can-duct-sealing-lead-to-condensation/#comment-27339 Tue, 17 May 2022 15:04:42 +0000 https://www.energyvanguard.com/?p=7427#comment-27339 See it a lot. We fix a lot of duct sweating issues and we also sell Aeroseal. One thing we tell customers is that if you seal the ducts and you already have sweating, it will make it worse.

See it more with people who have sealed ducts but then have attic fans.

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