Comments on: Is the ENERGY STAR New Homes Program Dying?

By: Harris Woodward

Harris Woodward — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 00:20:56 +0000

@ Bruce Fillmore - I COULD
@ Bruce Fillmore - I COULD NOT AGREE MORE! U.S. buildings literally "suck". Forget for a moment the positive impact high-performance gains have on our contribution to climate change. The bottom line is that the owners enjoy an immedidate ROI.

It's no longer conjecture or hyperbole. The juice is worth the squeeze. Build better and everyone wins.

By: Bruce Fillmore

Bruce Fillmore — Sun, 24 Nov 2013 22:21:23 +0000

I've had very successful
I've had very successful results in Climate Zone 5, insulating with fiberglass batts and spots of closed cell foam, out of last 7-homes not one had an ACH-50 over 2. (1.5-1.8) If the HVAC system is sized for these conditions it is a completely different system than one sized for 7-ACH. I've found that 95% of builders cannot or will not think out of the box they have been in for the last 30years. To say Energy Stat is to expensive is another way of saying I'm to busy or lazy to figure out how to make it doable & affordable. In total it is costing me about $1.50/sqft more to hit the Energy Star requirements with HERS scores just under 50, if they cannot justify this they need to completely rethink their mission statement ("Make as much money as possible @ all costs quality and reputation be damned")

My $0.02

By: John Proctor

John Proctor — Sun, 24 Nov 2013 20:27:34 +0000

OK folks -- what part of the
OK folks -- what part of the HVAC list is too much?
Shouldn't the heating and cooling be sized properly? (even the methods listed oversize)
Shouldn't the building be ventilated for indoor air quality? (if not then put in a request for change to ASHRAE 62.2 it is under continuous maintenance)
Shouldn't the air conditioner or heat pump have the right amount of refrigerant in it with the metering device working properly?
Shouldn't the airflow through the evaporator meet minimum requirements? (many new homes we see even have the flow so low that the furnace cycles on the limit switch)
Many in the industry (energy efficiency and comfort) say that the airflow to each room should be adequate to provide the desired heating and cooling to that room. Do you disagree?
Sorry folks, but what do you want to leave out so that the antiquated HVAC contractors will not complain whining: "It is just too haaard"?
twitter @proctoreng

By: Ryan Shanahan

Ryan Shanahan — Thu, 21 Nov 2013 00:56:30 +0000

We've also seen a significant
We've also seen a significant drop in the percentage of our builder clients that pursue ENERGY STAR in the Pacific Northwest. Luckily, we have plenty of other certification pathways for our builder clients to build to. For example, we changed our Earth Advantage Home Certification program to no longer require ENERGY STAR but instead offer additional points towards EA certification for builders that meet both certification criteria.

One point that I haven't seen addressed here or in the comments is the general idea that EE is getting harder and harder to reach. As code comes up to meet the EE specs of basic efficiency programs it gets a lot harder to reach 15% improvements of a dwindling home energy consumption number. When you apply a cost effective metric to these upgrades you can see it will always be a losing battle as we move towards net zero.

That doesn't have to be the case though. If we changed the price of energy to reflect real costs and factored in higher appraised values for homes that outperform their code built competition the math around the cost effectiveness of the upgrades changes for the better.

By: John Nicholas

John Nicholas — Wed, 06 Nov 2013 20:27:54 +0000

Thanks all for your kind
Thanks all for your kind comments.

It is coming, probably in an unexpected way.

Kim, I doubt the legislature will pass anything statewide. Home Rule has always been strong in KS and the current political climate is not conducive! The other issue is most of the counties below 50K in population do not even have a code enforcement program for any parts of the IBC or IRC much less Chapter 11. That said, something will happen here. How it gets implemented is the real issue.

Bryce, We look to your area and drool. Folks say, the builders down here can't build a home and sell it with Energy Codes - I say the builders down here are just as smart as the ones in NE Kansas.

I may call on lots of you in the coming years. Thanks for being there.

By: David Butler

David Butler — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 23:35:17 +0000

Lee wrote: "I hope you
Lee wrote: "I hope you care at least that the ducts are not fastened to the bottom of the roof decking."

Yeah, that too. But in the context of my comment and this blog in general (new construction of high performance homes), one would hope that goes without saying.

Unfortunately, neither LEED nor Energy Star require ducts to be located inside the thermal envelope. In homes where ducts end up in the attic (other than encapsulated), a horizontal unit should be used with ducts parallel to and supported just above the insulation, which is by far the coolest part of the attic.

Upflow units with radial ducts strapped to the rafters (I refer to this as an octopus) should never be tolerated, even if it's not illegal.

By: Lee

Lee — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 20:18:09 +0000

@David Butler: You said &
@David Butler: You said

"Much better would be to field verify that the duct system delivers the right amount of air to each room within a reasonable tolerance, and measure the external static pressure. If both of those numbers are good, then I don't care how you got there. "

I hope you care at least that the ducts are not fastened to the bottom of the roof decking. I work for a fire and water restoration company in Midland, TX. I am astonished at the number of homes where the entire furnace/AC evaporator and air handler unit, along with minimally insulated (and often enough un-insulated) ductwork is located entirely above the insulation in attic spaces where the outside temperature is above 100 degrees for most of July and half of August most years. Even if the correct amount of air reaches every room and static pressure is ideal, a system like that is going to waste energy like crazy.

By: Bruce Chyka

Bruce Chyka — Sat, 02 Nov 2013 03:25:09 +0000

Energy Star was a success but
Energy Star was a success but as others have noted bureaucrats are good a snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. I only have two builders that still participate in the program. That is partly because the local utility provides a small cash incentive.

John hang in there it took me two years to get what is planned in the 2015 code adoption for HERS here. You know the story. The implementation has started (HERS is an alternative path to the 2012 IECC.) I just taught a 4 hour code class at the Johnson County Contractors licensing Institute. There were at least 50 builders in the 80 seat room. Vendors have brought Mark Laliberte in 3 times in the last 15 months to talk to the HBA, Code officials and other interested parties. It is grass roots progress at best.

We are leading edge and trying to keep it from bleeding edge. So far so good. The main issue other than HVAC installation is the air sealing and insulation work. Its not pretty for insulators who have not work in a green program like Energy Star. Challenges we are encountering are the typical poor quality and consistency of installation. Fortunately when the builders are made aware of the issues they participate in getting the work corrected. Most don't want to pay for inferior work.

John if you need any support let me know.

By: John Nicholas

John Nicholas — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 05:57:35 +0000

We can all grip about
We can all grip about certifications, programs, HERS Ratings etc. We can all grip about builders, contractors and others not properly installing; equipment, insulation, ducts or exhaust fans.

The real issue in my mind, is not the Code V. Program V Rating . The issue is getting people to do something.

I try to work in an area with no Energy Code. No commercial Energy Star work. Very few audits. No Tax Credit homes.

I know someday it will change, I don't know when someday will come.

So I will work on it one day at a time. I've been doing that for 3 years. Time to start on year 4.

I will test the exhaust vents that come my way. I will test the duct systems, and do IR on them also. They all leak, some more than others. Had a 797 CFM @ 25 leakage the other day on a 2 ton system (new construction). Makes me wonder how much was charged for the duct system that was not delivered.

I have been asked to serve on the local builder's association Code Group for Energy. We will see. I know this is red state Kansas, and codes are not liked.

I enjoy reading your concerns and issues with all the various programs, certifications and builders pushing the envelope with HERS Ratings.

As I said …… "Some day …. "

By: David Butler

David Butler — Thu, 31 Oct 2013 21:23:27 +0000

Gary wrote: "what does
Gary wrote: "what does any certification really add to a quality/properly executed HERS rating that most home buyers care about?"

Great question. I certainly agree with you that a performance label is better than a certification based on check-offs. However, as noted in my previous comment, HERS as it currently exists does little to incent proper HVAC design and installation practice, which is (still) the elephant in the room.

I would be in favor of some sort of performance based duct system label, perhaps as a part of HERS. For example, Energy Star, LEED and many building codes require proof of a Manual D. That's nonsense. That piece of paper proves nothing. Much better would be to field verify that the duct system delivers the right amount of air to each room within a reasonable tolerance, and measure the external static pressure. If both of those numbers are good, then I don't care how you got there.