My main points were you pick a contractor who also does commercial. You then have someone who knows how to do it right. You don’t have a passive house and should not have to remodel the older house to get comfort. A high end residential system from Trane or Carrier will make you glad you spent the extra $5k. 1200 sqft likely does not need zoning but you have great options once you get the right system .

And Invisalign is a superb method to straighten your bite. The hmo dentist with $1000 worth of insurance to work worth won’t do it.

Thanks for your response rj. We have less expensive electricity with hydro here which helps. Gas lines do not extend out where we live. Propane tank takes up a lot of room and feels like a bomb sitting in the yard. Yes you can have them in the ground but I don’t think there would be real savings with all that. I had a gas furnace before and then added a heat pump for air in my bigger home so I know how great that was. I recall getting the gas company to push out a gas line to our 400 home development decades ago. The gas company was not happy but I did all the leg work to get all the signatures for the state utility commission to push them to move the lines just a short distance to our big development. One thing that the top person mentioned to me is that gas may not be that cheap down the road either. With the way things are going right now on the world stage it is hard to say if gas will not become more expensive than it already is.

You use a lot of inside lingo that I tried to follow. The idea of using a main trunk to push the air to all parts of the house is what I have watched being done before. There is an art to getting the air to distribute well to all rooms is what I learned from watching my old house being ducted by someone who knew what he was doing. I think he put in round pieces tilted that would push some of the air flow out to the branches from the main trunk. It was a bigger house. This one is nearly 1/3 of that size at 1200sf one level ranch. So having a commercial type of design seems a bit over kill in my opinion in this situation. There is only one direction it can go and one area it can be installed in the garage. I also use Blueair 210 and 310 air cleaners which helps with air quality but not optimum and again I am not sure having to use these is energy efficient and the filters are pricey and I change out every six months. They take up floor space and noisy and my grandson likes to mess with them and not optimum at all. It does help with keeping the awful ductless heads a bit cleaner. I got them because the wildfires in CA and Oregon have been blowing our way the past two years and we even had to stay inside due to the worst air quality ratings we had for a whole week. Being able to shut down fresh air from outside is now a necessity. But I still want to have fresh air ability with a ducted heat pump system, that would be optimum. As far as a passive house I like the idea of putting the insulation on the outside covering all the studs etc but not sure this little house is worth investing so much money into all that yet. I am already putting on a new roof this year out of necessity. I really think there should be a sweet spot in the middle with all this. On one end are the cheapo crappy ductless heat pump units along, cadet wall heaters, baseboard heaters and radiant ceiling heat. On the other end high tech designed ducted heat pump system with commercial prices from the sounds of it. Most folks cannot afford a complete huge remodel. I just paid off my house and not willing to go into debt right now with so many uncertainties in the world right now. I will live with this crummy unit until that warranty expires and maybe I will move by then. But I wanted folks to know how bad the options are right now for the middle of the road applications and not to get fooled by all the marketing hype of ductless or radiant or wall heaters. One thing you can count on with the newest energy saving thing, chances are there is a real bad down side to them that these fly by night HVAC installers won’t reveal. They are on online trying to silence those who try to make it known. Right now so many trades are having glory days with the hot housing market, getting good help with remodeling is very problematic now. But these come in cycles and not a great time to see much reasonable pricing with any of it now. If possible, I would wait for the price gouging to recede in the building sector before getting a better ducted HVAC system. I like the idea of UV air cleaning and keeping cleaning costs down is a better approach and keeps the filters out of the landfills. I do think having zonal control of a ducted HVAC system would be amazing at affordable prices is probably not there. The sector is not concerned about what is best it is more concerned about how to make the most money with the least training and effort with manufacturers who also operate the same way. Reminds me of my dentist who retired. He teaches too and spends a lot of time volunteering to help those with dental issues who can’t afford the high costs today. He says it is impossible to talk to the younger dentists in doing the right thing and all. They don’t worry about your bite and they don’t get paid from insurance company to make bite adjustments so that is why it took me 60 years before I found him to fix my bite when I had countless dentists make it worse. These younger guys want the easy fast money and not willing to do the right thing. It is this mindset that is prevalent in so many sectors right now. If any of my dentists would have said you need these adjustments I would have paid out of pocket but they just don’t give a rip anymore nor do they have the skill to do it anymore. It is not surprising this same mindset lives in the HVAC sector as well. My grandfather was in the trades he would make great custom work and he didn’t charge a fortune for it either. But he lived within his means and that is a big problem with so many of these guys who don’t know how to manage a business let alone actually do the work well.

Trillium, I tend to agree with your main points. My understanding is Carrier now makes an easy to disassemble and clean minisplit. A close to passive house house might stay cleaner, reduce humidity problems and suit the characteristics of a minisplit. Existing housing stock and most builder spec new houses are rarely good candidates for a minisplit heat pump system anywhere outside of Southern California.

Obviously sealing up the house is the preferred method to minimize operating costs but may not be reasonable in your case without a gut job remodel.

It is possible to get a good system installed well but you need to look for a company that does primarily Commercial with some Residential. You are a customer who knows the difference and may be willing to pay a premium for a complete system design. If it is not possible to keep the ductwork inside the conditioned envelope (which might require a significant remodel), consider rigid ducts in the crawlspace connected with short runs of flex for noise reduction. Your contract specifies duct testing to a standard using traditional sealing methods on all seams and gaps. You might follow up with an Aeroseal application to further reduce duct leakage.

Given the house is 1971 and undoubtedly somewhat leaky, you specify dual fuel with propane or natural gas to ensure comfort on those extremely cold wet days when any heat pump will labor a few days of the year. You make space inside the conditioned envelope for a variable capacity dual fuel heat pump from Trane, American Standard or perhaps Carrier. Multiple returns and Media filters easily accessible combine with UV to keep the air and the coil clean, often with no yearly cleaning requirement.

If necessary, add integrated forced air zoning which is quiet and efficient from the suggested vendors. Modulating dampers optimized by a variable capacity system without a bypass damper makes comfort, quiet and efficient possible.

In the end a well designed ducted heat pump system will check your boxes and provide comfort at a decent operating cost. The downside is you will pay for high quality but it is not unreasonable to expect a twenty year equipment lifespan and forty years on the ductwork.

Craig I am one of those people who have had two different brands of mini splits over several years. Would I do it again. NO!!!! You are exactly right about the mold issues. I live in WA state and the first unit I bought to try it out was a Friedrich DIYer model for heating and cooling. It was a first of it’s kind and was only about 2k for a 24btu unit online. Installing it was a nightmare, like wrestling an anaconda with the lines. The lines would only would go 25′ from the compressor to the inside head unit. We had no idea that you had to clean these things and no mention of it with paper work etc. Plus no one wanted to touch our DIY unit since they never made a profit on the sale when the thermostat went out after five years! This sector is just big time protectionist. We figured out from watching Youtubes how to clean it. But the manufacturers do not want home owners to clean it and offer zero help on this. This is the gift that keeps giving these dealers. These things have been around for decades around the world and the manufacturers have yet to design a model that provides easy access to clean it. It was gross and moldy when we first cleaned it and pretty shocking. After it was cleaned we noticed a huge improvement in air quality but in only lasts so long. We would clean it about once every 6 months and it was a messy project. I wish there was an easier way to clean them so we could clean them more often. We previously had horrible 1970’s radiant plaster board ceiling heat and no ducting.

The problem with these units is they don’t fit over the windows so no way to dry condensation off the windows in winter . . . and if a room had windows on different walls they would not have any ducting. We have double pane newer vinyl windows too.

Also the air is stale in the house with these. When we used the dehumidifier option in the summer it really never took the water out much. The air tends to be more humid with these ductless units. I had to resort in the winter to using dehumidifiers and well that is not energy saving at all!!!

They could have set them up to include fresh air but again they don’t bother with innovations with these units for decades. Do you know why these are so popular? This is what dealers are trying to suck people into buying because it doesn’t take actual skill to put these in much at all. They can hire kids to install them who are sloppy and make a huge profit. We bought our last one, Daiken, from one of their gold like dealers who was a real rip off with pricing. We wanted Daiken since they are the only dealer who actually offered a 12 year warranty for both LABOR and parts. They also said they would clean these units for about 200.00. The reason we wanted this warranty is due to the fact that to get these worked on it will cost more in labor than the unit is worth. Essentially these are throw away units. You could buy a new one for the cost of getting an older one fixed. Our landfills are now filling up with this throw away boxes. When we did call the dealer that installed it three years later they told us the cost of cleaning it will be 400.00!!!!! So they lied. Also they would not tear it apart but just use the spray bottle and shower curtain or garbage bag set up or pricey versions you can buy online and do it yourself with a can of HVAC coil cleaner for about 5.00.

Another problem is we had two head units installed and the smaller bedroom unit is noisy when the fins move and hit the guard. We took out he guard and it is less noisy. Also the team that installed it failed in three major ways. First the kid sliding up in the attic decided to slide on the dry wall and now we have a crack in the ceiling. That same lazy kid also did not cover the copper tubing in the attic so we found it uncovered and building up condensation! That same kid spent a lot of time in our bathrooms and I wonder if he was riffling thru out medicine cabinets. The guy who was in charge wasn’t much older and he never tested the lines so about two weeks later our air conditioning just stopped working. The gas leaked out. Not very environmentally safe now is it. They had an older electrician do that work but the crew was not that impressive and this is one of the bigger dealers in our area and I expected them to do better after interviewing other outfits that were even worse! These ductless systems do not attract the best dealers.

If I had to do it all over again and I am sure I will eventually, I would have a ducted heat pump system. I would have the vents on the floor under the windows. I would have a way to have fresh air coming in and heated. I would add on filters that would improve air quality for allergies and help with taking the moist air out. Also we have no heat or cooling in our bathroom and extra bedroom but with a ducted system I would make sure all the rooms had heating and cooling.

Friedrich only sold those DIY units for just a few years and then the family sold the company and the new owners ditched these DIY units asap. I am sure all the ductless dealers nation wide were happy about that. Maybe this was a strategy by the family to get buyers to pay their price to get these DIY units off the market? Friedrich at the time was considered the biggest air conditioning company I had read so they were a leader for sure. I recall calling all around a large metro area of millions to find a dealer who would fix our Friedrich’s thermostat on our 5 yr old ductless and also tried to get a part and no one would come out. The new owners of Friedrich would not provide us a part, only to a dealer. So we were basically screwed by this sector big time.

It makes me just want to go back to window shakers and small portable heaters you can buy on Amazon for 60.00 I am so disgusted with the way they operate with consumers today. Why is it you can buy a window shaker and you don’t need to have them pressure tested and they can plug into regular wall socket but with these poorly designed ductless units you have to have electrician, then pressure test the gas, then have a county permit, then have a county guy who knows nothing about these units come out and want to look into your bedroom even though he can see the piping stuff coming out of the attic into the wall. He has no clue if it is done right at all since after his visit we had all these issues crop up with the gas leaking and the copper pipes not covered and our ceiling cracked.

I really think there is much too much emphasis on selling these cheap versions of HVAC and I am sure the Japanese and Chinese make it extremely profitable for their dealers but it a terrible set up long run for Americans and only adding to our landfills. Also I think finding people who actually know how to duct correctly is a dying art now. I had a previous house ducted, a much larger house and he was amazing to watch. He was so good he did the house for the Costco owner. You can’t find guys like that anymore. Not only do I know what good HVAC looks like and how it operates but I now also know what horrible ductless HVAC is like too.

I would also warn against radiant heating in any form since at some point it will break down and the cost of fixing it could be staggering if you can find anyone to do it. With our ceiling radiant heat which I had never heard of before, I called our local PUD about it. The engineer out and out lied about how efficient they are and blah blah blah. Why did he lie? Well our local group owned PUD was pushing builders in this area to install them. Turns out the heat is just awful. It takes forever to heat a room and then only things heat up like coffee tables and the top of your head. It takes forever to cool things down too. It uses big time electricity and you can’t find a decent programmable thermostat (King) that won’t get fried no matter if it is a one or two pole. Then you have no cooling ability with them either. It is like buying an oven that only bakes and can’t broil, nor convection or self cleaning. It is a one trick HVAC pony.

When talking to the dealer that installed our units and then after learning they lied about cleaning charges he told us to go call another Daiken dealer. So these guys don’t worry about bad reviews since so many referrals from people who fell for the marketing and then you have PUD outfits pushing these and financing these units and they have this special list of dealers they will finance and it makes me wonder about how and why these dealers are picked by PUD. I do think this is a conflict of interest but what do I know.

I have an older 1971 ranch and ducting this will be problematic and now I doubt anyone can do it in the crawl space or wants to. I have read about using these plastic type of tube ducting with heat pumps for crawl spaces but I have also read how they really don’t work as well as the tin ducts and another half baked approach by HVAC. I want the warm air from the ducts to rise in front of the windows, not from the attic which is not optimum since heat rises. You would think by now there would be some really clear choices in effective energy efficient heating and cooling systems for us now a days for the biggest chunk of older homes today but all I have seen is how they now target us with these half baked ductless systems.

I posted on one of those online sites like reddit about the problems since someone asked about them. I thought those sites were open to people posting about their real concerns but I will not post there anymore since I learned how so many dealers are on there making sure their bottom line is not affected. So many HVAC guys attacked me and voted my comments down. One guy DM me and said wow these guys are really upset about how you are telling about your experiences and how they want to down rank my comments so no one will find them! It was that obvious. I still leave digital crumbs out there for folks so they know up front how bad these systems are. This shows you how adamant they are about squashing anyone who says anything different than what their marketing tells folks.

BTW I spent like 7,900 for that one Daiken heat pump and two heads inside units is all. I think I was taken to the cleaners compared to what I have read online about pricing since then. It took one day to install it too and they had to come back twice more to fix their mistakes. Very profitable. You mileage might vary but I doubt it.

My experience with psc compressor models was the 3.5 ton splits that still had single row condensers had the highest seer. Normally they had ecm blowers, scroll unloaders and txvs.

@Curt, great description of how inverter driven compressors are marketed! My 1-ton Carrier 18VS has same compressor, coil, fan, cabinet & circuit board as the 2-ton model, just different firmware.

What I said is also true of single-stage equipment where each size has a different compressor: the smaller sizes will have higher efficiency ratings than larger sizes within same model line.

Some of that effect arises from manufacturers reducing SKUs (Stock Keeping Units…in other words, inventory) by marketing identical hardware as several different model combinations via software modifications.

For example, a given pair of indoor and outdoor minisplit heat pump and air handling units can be (and is) sold as 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton and 1 ton systems. Identical hardware is programmed via software / firmware to hit the three different capacity performance points. AHRI efficiency ratings for the lower capacity variants will be higher since a 1 ton system limited to 3/4 or 1/2 ton output will always be loafing along at slower more efficient fan, blower and compressor speeds. Manufacturers price the hobbled lowered capacity variants at slightly lower prices; willing to accept lower margins to hit more capacity points with less inventory.

Adding to what Curt said… All else being equal, smaller capacity heat pumps and air conditioners will have higher efficiency ratings than the larger sizes within same model line. And that’s not just a mini-split thing.

OTOH if individual indoor heads are matched to individual outdoor units they can individually and collectively turn themselves much lower during mild weather.

Hope this helps